From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id fa286b67 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 22:37:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 223A79B913; Fri, 15 Feb 2019 08:37:58 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC8B39B8FB; Fri, 15 Feb 2019 08:37:45 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E14659B8FA; Fri, 15 Feb 2019 08:37:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: from smtp2.cs.Stanford.EDU (smtp2.cs.stanford.edu [171.64.64.26]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C2779B8F9 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2019 08:37:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: from solarpost.stanford.edu ([171.64.103.115]:60836) by smtp2.cs.Stanford.EDU with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1guPdW-0008CG-Iv for tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 14:37:42 -0800 Received: from [107.135.30.30] (helo=MacBook-Air-2.local) by solarpost.Stanford.EDU with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1guPdV-0002n6-7b for tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 14:37:41 -0800 To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org References: <20190214192940.ED58418C0AB@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <1b71e45e-5711-ee8d-2bc8-4ea6298311dd@solar.stanford.edu> <201902142037.x1EKbpnR017241@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <33ce5850-f0b5-1fa9-d459-58d4e2416e80@telegraphics.com.au> From: Deborah Scherrer Organization: Stanford University Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 14:37:40 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <33ce5850-f0b5-1fa9-d459-58d4e2416e80@telegraphics.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scan-Signature: f52b81a2b0b1468c47a83f31a7d93b0f Subject: Re: [TUHS] Women in computing X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Actually, I suspect it's just the opposite. For example, veterinarians used to be entirely male. Why, cause they made Big Bucks. Then, as salaries went down, more women got into the field. Why, because they cared about the animals. Now vets make something like $25K when they get out of their 7-8 years of school, and they are almost all female. I never did anything cause of the money (but then, I married very young and had a quite capable husband who ended up a professor at Stanford). At any rate, I chose my major, my grad studies, and my 2 careers cause I loved the fields. Took a 45% cut in salary when I went from high tech to Stanford/NASA. Didn't even think about that.... On 2/14/19 2:22 PM, Toby Thain wrote: > On 2019-02-14 3:37 PM, Jon Steinhart wrote: >> Deborah Scherrer writes: >>> There have been several studies. As I remember, girls in school do >>> indeed receive as much encouragement in computers as do males. And >>> girls do indeed have access to as many resources as males. So the >>> studies came to no conclusions. >>> >>> My personal thought is that, in high school, it's the "nerd" factor. If >>> I were back in high school and saw the kind of guys that are getting >>> into computers now, I would stay a thousand miles away from them and >>> that field. But, alas, I don't think anyone has tried to research that >>> idea... >>> >>> And/or: I have a friend who was a professor of CS in Amsterdam. She had >>> many grad students of both sexes. She says she had to practically force >>> the women to stay in the field. They would see the guys getting overly >>> focused on the computer details themselves, completely overlooking the >>> goals of the project. The women would get frustrated and complain to >>> the professor. She would have to convince them that the guys just did >>> that, and that the women should stay on track. >>> >>> I do admit, I have a husband who does that. Personally, I have ALWAYS >>> looked at computers as a tool to accomplish something grander than just >>> being a computer. But I am usually out-shouted. ;-) >> I think that many of us old folk on this list started out in a time when >> getting a computer to be a computer was an accomplishment. But I agree >> that enough of that has been done that using computers as tools subservient >> to larger goals is where the bulk of the work exists today. >> >> There's a theory that sounds superficially plausible to me, which is that >> women leave the field because they're more responsible than men. The theory > I was REALLY hoping gender essentialism wouldn't be enlisted in this > thread. Oh well. > >> is that women think more about whether a profession will provide them with >> the security and stability necessary to support a family. ... >> >> Jon >>