From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, NICE_REPLY_A autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 21450 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2022 00:41:10 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 29 Jan 2022 00:41:10 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id AB9D29B6B2; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 10:41:09 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A515D9510A; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 10:40:42 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="aBU9/M+Y"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 68C559510A; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 10:40:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oi1-f181.google.com (mail-oi1-f181.google.com [209.85.167.181]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 86FE695109 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 10:40:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oi1-f181.google.com with SMTP id u129so15522189oib.4 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:40:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent:subject:content-language :from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to; bh=ElRamCvi/aMhUX4gI0jpGEQgcjoJBttq3hkBwXl7ecI=; b=aBU9/M+YeUFdeVIFKK0ldqKuMCVsOcoC0TIWkDTT0qL6wBREdttEiJBhBG1NPvMY/e T3F2W4AO7d7140BETOSMh8fj1s2mNPpiMcFS2M8BAhRNyPKMqUqKopBtIXD75xKuqhwV yNzBXZu4QKBzaJdmgX+KGTQJRcE+crriGQxu+2ZNBENRtcjgDyi6UjbUFXcgpNIHX06M eJpKeCtVa7bbO0Hj9ANqXVWYoOm9i0TJBq2obgNCrCCVDRD/34AqE65Xncu55DvZQbNb Tg5/RvAC3a8vR1gD0JGsWOI6l4NrWM5hR9ijPV9DYjJ24PCYAJGCGXvnZv3ESJVDL/B8 f34w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:mime-version:user-agent:subject :content-language:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to; bh=ElRamCvi/aMhUX4gI0jpGEQgcjoJBttq3hkBwXl7ecI=; b=Oi399mudhWRABPUMyDc8qteTMyOmYJ2fCcOD1btLGqmBZ2DHdwDTQWLqilEThRtlX4 krchX3dtiuXpKxHbuJda+AlYgi/ibdhj/S2zvTIjTbktA9OAsQqMmrjlTAsX3Yzswur4 +5zd4sI1zt4k4yU+TfUIAuXA7bIFaDdZ+5sWbyipNLyuyUZOP3atII/jPikBIyeFeHbT BQZKK021PDXI9YftvAqiX9YakDs/UbG6tMOe3Lu4DY4H2B9qeXbt3P+wj8jZaJCWKce/ /w1ZsyqvtbzDo59hPzNtOARmdScidzX3vaZfJdQ1vKxkmKOCIpiL9doLBDN3YKSIAZby hzWA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530XutlYc4P2WPI5PWHLDdBcj+s0l0jbSe04qkLFxSe3GhM8/cW9 xDizgJpeGbLDsqOMG3zO11c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxah9Z5Kp3Uut4FeCqqQ/istr/74Jy9R8A/u8f5bD60VYSrcLa5O0Zj7eRCZX9h/zmE04nl+Q== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:2002:: with SMTP id q2mr11723921oiw.29.1643416837821; Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:40:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.8.0.11] ([194.110.112.148]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c29sm5615674otk.16.2022.01.28.16.40.37 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Jan 2022 16:40:37 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------0nTN3PxsGd38ReabJmWISlWD" Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 18:40:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.0 Content-Language: en-US From: Will Senn To: Dan Cross References: <0f83f174-eeca-30fb-7b98-77fb0da80f2e@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [TUHS] Looking back to 1981 - what pascal was popular on what unix? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0nTN3PxsGd38ReabJmWISlWD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 1/28/22 5:31 PM, Will Senn wrote: > On 1/28/22 5:18 PM, Dan Cross wrote: >> On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 6:09 PM Will Senn wrote: >> >> I'm reading in, Kernighan & Plauger's 1981 edition of Software >> Tools in Pascal and in the book, the author's mention Bill Joy's >> Pascal and Andy Tanenbaum's as being rock solid. So, a few >> related questions: >> >> 1. What edition of UNIX were they likely to be using? >> >> >> I'm afraid I can't speak to your 2nd and 3rd questions, but I can >> offer what I think is a reasonable guess about the first. >> >> One of the neat things about Unix and Unix-adjacent books of that era >> is that very often the copyright page held some information about the >> production of the book itself. I just so happened to have a copy of, >> "Software Tools in Pascal" sitting on my desk, and it says, "This >> books as set in Times Roman and Courier by the authors, using a >> Mergenthaler Linotron 202 phototypesetter driven by a PDP-11/70 >> running the Unix operating system." >> >> Given the PDP-11 and the date (1981) one may reasonably conclude that >> it was running 7th Edition. I imagine the pascal was Joy's, from >> Berkeley. >> >>         - Dan C. >> > Great hint. 20 seconds after I hit send on the original email, I came > across this: > http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/bwk-on-pascal.html > > Where Brian Kernighan talks about the challenges they faced porting > the ratfor examples into pascal. He explains that: > > The programs were first written in that dialect of Pascal > supported by the Pascal interpreter pi provided by the University > of California at Berkeley. The language is close to the nominal > standard of Jensen and Wirth,(6 > ) with good > diagnostics and careful run-time checking. Since then, the > programs have also been run, unchanged except for new libraries of > primitives, on four other systems: an interpreter from the Free > University of Amsterdam (hereinafter referred to as VU, for Vrije > Universiteit), a VAX version of the Berkeley system (a true > compiler), a compiler purveyed by Whitesmiths, Ltd., and UCSD > Pascal on a Z80. All but the last of these Pascal systems are > written in C. > > So, you were right about it being Joy's pi. > > Thanks, > > Will On the good news front, I was able to find a working pi/px environment - 4.2bsd built from tape on simulated vax780 works great (thank god vi works there, too) and will run the programs in the book without mods, out of the box. 4.3 would probably work similarly (I put it on the list). I tried compiling the pascal distributed via 2bsd on v7, but wasn't able to get it built (story of my life). This is prolly expected because the notes in the distro say "This is still set up for version 6", so I'll stick with 4.2 for the time being. Just glad to have a working environment to supplement the reading. Will --------------0nTN3PxsGd38ReabJmWISlWD Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 1/28/22 5:31 PM, Will Senn wrote:
On 1/28/22 5:18 PM, Dan Cross wrote:
On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 6:09 PM Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm reading in, Kernighan & Plauger's 1981 edition of Software Tools in Pascal and in the book, the author's mention Bill Joy's Pascal and Andy Tanenbaum's as being rock solid. So, a few related questions:

1. What edition of UNIX were they likely to be using?

I'm afraid I can't speak to your 2nd and 3rd questions, but I can offer what I think is a reasonable guess about the first.

One of the neat things about Unix and Unix-adjacent books of that era is that very often the copyright page held some information about the production of the book itself. I just so happened to have a copy of, "Software Tools in Pascal" sitting on my desk, and it says, "This books as set in Times Roman and Courier by the authors, using a Mergenthaler Linotron 202 phototypesetter driven by a PDP-11/70 running the Unix operating system."

Given the PDP-11 and the date (1981) one may reasonably conclude that it was running 7th Edition. I imagine the pascal was Joy's, from Berkeley.

        - Dan C.

Great hint. 20 seconds after I hit send on the original email, I came across this:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/bwk-on-pascal.html

Where Brian Kernighan talks about the challenges they faced porting the ratfor examples into pascal. He explains that:

The programs were first written in that dialect of Pascal supported by the Pascal interpreter pi provided by the University of California at Berkeley.  The language is close to the nominal standard of Jensen and Wirth,(6) with good diagnostics and careful run-time checking.  Since then, the programs have also been run, unchanged except for new libraries of primitives, on four other systems: an interpreter from the Free University of Amsterdam (hereinafter referred to as VU, for Vrije Universiteit), a VAX version of the Berkeley system (a true compiler), a compiler purveyed by Whitesmiths, Ltd., and UCSD Pascal on a Z80.  All but the last of these Pascal systems are written in C.
So, you were right about it being Joy's pi.

Thanks,

Will

On the good news front, I was able to find a working pi/px environment - 4.2bsd built from tape on simulated vax780 works great (thank god vi works there, too) and will run the programs in the book without mods, out of the box. 4.3 would probably work similarly (I put it on the list). I tried compiling the pascal distributed via 2bsd on v7, but wasn't able to get it built (story of my life). This is prolly expected because the notes in the distro say "This is still set up for version 6", so I'll stick with 4.2 for the time being. Just glad to have a working environment to supplement the reading.

Will
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