[TUHS] UNIX Roff Manual

[TUHS] UNIX Roff Manual

[segaloco via TUHS]

Just sharing a copy of the Roff Manual that I had forgotten I scanned a little while back:

https://archive.org/details/roff_manual

This appears to be the UNIX complement to the S/360 version of the paper backed up by Doug here: https://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~doug/roff71/roff71.pdf

From the best I could tell, this predates both 1973's V3 and the 1971 S/360 version of the paper, putting it somewhere prior to 1971.  For instance, it is missing the .ar, .hx, .ig, .ix, .ni, .nx, .ro, .ta, and .tc requests found in V3.  The .ar and .ro, and .ta requests pop up in the S/360 paper, the rest are in the V3 manpage (prior manpages don't list the request summary).

If anyone has some authoritative date information I can update the archive description accordingly.

Finally, this very well could be missing the last page, the Page offset, Merge patterns, and Envoi sections of Doug's paper are not reflected here, although at the very least, the .mg request is not in this paper so the Merge patterns section probably wasn't there anyway.

- Matt G.

[TUHS] Re: UNIX Roff Manual

[Larry McVoy]

That's pretty cool and it sure looks a lot like nroff.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 08:51:04PM +0000, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
> Just sharing a copy of the Roff Manual that I had forgotten I scanned a little while back:
> 
> https://archive.org/details/roff_manual
> 
> This appears to be the UNIX complement to the S/360 version of the paper backed up by Doug here: https://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~doug/roff71/roff71.pdf
> 
> >From the best I could tell, this predates both 1973's V3 and the 1971 S/360 version of the paper, putting it somewhere prior to 1971.  For instance, it is missing the .ar, .hx, .ig, .ix, .ni, .nx, .ro, .ta, and .tc requests found in V3.  The .ar and .ro, and .ta requests pop up in the S/360 paper, the rest are in the V3 manpage (prior manpages don't list the request summary).
> 
> If anyone has some authoritative date information I can update the archive description accordingly.
> 
> Finally, this very well could be missing the last page, the Page offset, Merge patterns, and Envoi sections of Doug's paper are not reflected here, although at the very least, the .mg request is not in this paper so the Merge patterns section probably wasn't there anyway.
> 
> - Matt G.

-- 
---
Larry McVoy           Retired to fishing          http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat

[TUHS] Re: UNIX Roff Manual

[segaloco via TUHS]

On Wednesday, July 17th, 2024 at 1:51 PM, segaloco <segaloco@protonmail.com> wrote:

> Just sharing a copy of the Roff Manual that I had forgotten I scanned a little while back:
>
> https://archive.org/details/roff_manual
>
> This appears to be the UNIX complement to the S/360 version of the paper backed up by Doug here: https://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~doug/roff71/roff71.pdf
>
> From the best I could tell, this predates both 1973's V3 and the 1971 S/360 version of the paper, putting it somewhere prior to 1971. For instance, it is missing the .ar, .hx, .ig, .ix, .ni, .nx, .ro, .ta, and .tc requests found in V3. The .ar and .ro, and .ta requests pop up in the S/360 paper, the rest are in the V3 manpage (prior manpages don't list the request summary).
>
> If anyone has some authoritative date information I can update the archive description accordingly.
>
> Finally, this very well could be missing the last page, the Page offset, Merge patterns, and Envoi sections of Doug's paper are not reflected here, although at the very least, the .mg request is not in this paper so the Merge patterns section probably wasn't there anyway.
>
> - Matt G.

Just a correction Tom Lyon pointed out, the 1971 BCPL paper is for a *GECOS*, not S/360 version, it just suggests sending the print jobs then to a S/360 machine, the roff itself is GECOS.

- Matt G.

[TUHS] Re: UNIX Roff Manual

[Tom Lyon]

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I had meant to copy TUSH on this/

On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 2:41 PM Tom Lyon <pugs78@gmail.com> wrote:

> I got excited by your mention of a S/360 version, but Doug's link talks
> about the GECOS version (GE/Honeywell hardware).
>
> Princeton had a S/360 version at about that time, it was a re-write of a
> version for the IBM 7094 done by Kernighan after spending a summer at MIT
> with CTSS and RUNOFF.  I'm very curious whether the Princeton S/360 version
> spread to other locations.  Found this article in the Daily Princetonian
> about the joy and history of ROFF.
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/zMWV1GRLZdNBUuP36
>
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 1:51 PM segaloco via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
>
>> Just sharing a copy of the Roff Manual that I had forgotten I scanned a
>> little while back:
>>
>> https://archive.org/details/roff_manual
>>
>> This appears to be the UNIX complement to the S/360 version of the paper
>> backed up by Doug here:
>> https://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~doug/roff71/roff71.pdf
>>
>> From the best I could tell, this predates both 1973's V3 and the 1971
>> S/360 version of the paper, putting it somewhere prior to 1971.  For
>> instance, it is missing the .ar, .hx, .ig, .ix, .ni, .nx, .ro, .ta, and .tc
>> requests found in V3.  The .ar and .ro, and .ta requests pop up in the
>> S/360 paper, the rest are in the V3 manpage (prior manpages don't list the
>> request summary).
>>
>> If anyone has some authoritative date information I can update the
>> archive description accordingly.
>>
>> Finally, this very well could be missing the last page, the Page offset,
>> Merge patterns, and Envoi sections of Doug's paper are not reflected here,
>> although at the very least, the .mg request is not in this paper so the
>> Merge patterns section probably wasn't there anyway.
>>
>> - Matt G.
>>
>

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[TUHS] Re: UNIX Roff Manual

[Clem Cole]

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Wow.  That article gives me some interesting insight. I knew and used
something at CMU called roff on TSS but I never knew where it came from.
It was the first in any of those families of programs I learned to use.  I
had thought it was just part of our TSS system.

But your article says the Princeton version was written by my old friend
Paul Hillfinger.  Paul was a CMU grad student.  While most of the CS folks
used the PDP-10s, Paul was one of few that knew his way around the IBM gear
- which in fact was how I had met him.  I would help him with systems
issues since I was one of the programmers working for the Computer Center
(which ran the IBM gear).    It is quite possible he introduced me to it.
If it was not native to TSS, a WAG is that he brought it with him. I’ll
have to ask him.

Clem

Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual


On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 6:45 PM Tom Lyon <pugs78@gmail.com> wrote:

> I had meant to copy TUSH on this/
>
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 2:41 PM Tom Lyon <pugs78@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I got excited by your mention of a S/360 version, but Doug's link talks
>> about the GECOS version (GE/Honeywell hardware).
>>
>> Princeton had a S/360 version at about that time, it was a re-write of a
>> version for the IBM 7094 done by Kernighan after spending a summer at MIT
>> with CTSS and RUNOFF.  I'm very curious whether the Princeton S/360 version
>> spread to other locations.  Found this article in the Daily Princetonian
>> about the joy and history of ROFF.
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/zMWV1GRLZdNBUuP36
>>
>
>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 1:51 PM segaloco via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Just sharing a copy of the Roff Manual that I had forgotten I scanned a
>>> little while back:
>>>
>>> https://archive.org/details/roff_manual
>>>
>>> This appears to be the UNIX complement to the S/360 version of the paper
>>> backed up by Doug here:
>>> https://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~doug/roff71/roff71.pdf
>>>
>>> From the best I could tell, this predates both 1973's V3 and the 1971
>>> S/360 version of the paper, putting it somewhere prior to 1971.  For
>>> instance, it is missing the .ar, .hx, .ig, .ix, .ni, .nx, .ro, .ta, and .tc
>>> requests found in V3.  The .ar and .ro, and .ta requests pop up in the
>>> S/360 paper, the rest are in the V3 manpage (prior manpages don't list the
>>> request summary).
>>>
>>> If anyone has some authoritative date information I can update the
>>> archive description accordingly.
>>>
>>> Finally, this very well could be missing the last page, the Page offset,
>>> Merge patterns, and Envoi sections of Doug's paper are not reflected here,
>>> although at the very least, the .mg request is not in this paper so the
>>> Merge patterns section probably wasn't there anyway.
>>>
>>> - Matt G.
>>>
>>

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[TUHS] Re: UNIX Roff Manual

[Tom Lyon]

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If you find Paul, ask him if there was another version between BWK's and
his.
If he is class of 73, he would've started in 69, which is after the 7094
was gone.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 5:18 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

> Wow.  That article gives me some interesting insight. I knew and used
> something at CMU called roff on TSS but I never knew where it came from.
> It was the first in any of those families of programs I learned to use.  I
> had thought it was just part of our TSS system.
>
> But your article says the Princeton version was written by my old friend
> Paul Hillfinger.  Paul was a CMU grad student.  While most of the CS folks
> used the PDP-10s, Paul was one of few that knew his way around the IBM gear
> - which in fact was how I had met him.  I would help him with systems
> issues since I was one of the programmers working for the Computer Center
> (which ran the IBM gear).    It is quite possible he introduced me to it.
> If it was not native to TSS, a WAG is that he brought it with him. I’ll
> have to ask him.
>
> Clem
>
> Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 6:45 PM Tom Lyon <pugs78@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I had meant to copy TUSH on this/
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 2:41 PM Tom Lyon <pugs78@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I got excited by your mention of a S/360 version, but Doug's link talks
>>> about the GECOS version (GE/Honeywell hardware).
>>>
>>> Princeton had a S/360 version at about that time, it was a re-write of a
>>> version for the IBM 7094 done by Kernighan after spending a summer at MIT
>>> with CTSS and RUNOFF.  I'm very curious whether the Princeton S/360 version
>>> spread to other locations.  Found this article in the Daily Princetonian
>>> about the joy and history of ROFF.
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/zMWV1GRLZdNBUuP36
>>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 1:51 PM segaloco via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just sharing a copy of the Roff Manual that I had forgotten I scanned a
>>>> little while back:
>>>>
>>>> https://archive.org/details/roff_manual
>>>>
>>>> This appears to be the UNIX complement to the S/360 version of the
>>>> paper backed up by Doug here:
>>>> https://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~doug/roff71/roff71.pdf
>>>>
>>>> From the best I could tell, this predates both 1973's V3 and the 1971
>>>> S/360 version of the paper, putting it somewhere prior to 1971.  For
>>>> instance, it is missing the .ar, .hx, .ig, .ix, .ni, .nx, .ro, .ta, and .tc
>>>> requests found in V3.  The .ar and .ro, and .ta requests pop up in the
>>>> S/360 paper, the rest are in the V3 manpage (prior manpages don't list the
>>>> request summary).
>>>>
>>>> If anyone has some authoritative date information I can update the
>>>> archive description accordingly.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, this very well could be missing the last page, the Page
>>>> offset, Merge patterns, and Envoi sections of Doug's paper are not
>>>> reflected here, although at the very least, the .mg request is not in this
>>>> paper so the Merge patterns section probably wasn't there anyway.
>>>>
>>>> - Matt G.
>>>>
>>>

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[TUHS] Re: UNIX Roff Manual

[Jonathan Gray]

On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 09:45:57PM +0000, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 17th, 2024 at 1:51 PM, segaloco <segaloco@protonmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Just sharing a copy of the Roff Manual that I had forgotten I scanned a little while back:
> >
> > https://archive.org/details/roff_manual
> >
> > This appears to be the UNIX complement to the S/360 version of the paper backed up by Doug here: https://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~doug/roff71/roff71.pdf
> >
> > From the best I could tell, this predates both 1973's V3 and the 1971 S/360 version of the paper, putting it somewhere prior to 1971. For instance, it is missing the .ar, .hx, .ig, .ix, .ni, .nx, .ro, .ta, and .tc requests found in V3. The .ar and .ro, and .ta requests pop up in the S/360 paper, the rest are in the V3 manpage (prior manpages don't list the request summary).
> >
> > If anyone has some authoritative date information I can update the archive description accordingly.
> >
> > Finally, this very well could be missing the last page, the Page offset, Merge patterns, and Envoi sections of Doug's paper are not reflected here, although at the very least, the .mg request is not in this paper so the Merge patterns section probably wasn't there anyway.
> >
> > - Matt G.
> 
> Just a correction Tom Lyon pointed out, the 1971 BCPL paper is for a *GECOS*, not S/360 version, it just suggests sending the print jobs then to a S/360 machine, the roff itself is GECOS.
> 
> - Matt G.

Kernighan's OS/360 roff is described in
"Manuscript Printing under OS/360: ROFF" and email linked from
https://manpages.bsd.lv/history.html

[TUHS] Re: roff at Princeton, Re: UNIX Roff Manual

[John Levine]

It appears that Tom Lyon <pugs78@gmail.com> said:
>> Princeton had a S/360 version at about that time, it was a re-write of a
>> version for the IBM 7094 done by Kernighan after spending a summer at MIT
>> with CTSS and RUNOFF.  I'm very curious whether the Princeton S/360 version
>> spread to other locations.  

I used it when I was in high school. Princeton ran a bunch of free
services on their 360/91. You could submit a deck with a control card
saying which one you wanted, and it batched them up and ran them
periodically. They offered WATFOR (probably WATFIV), SNOBOL4,
AlgolW/PL360 and ROFF and WROFF. WROFF ran less often and it printed
on white paper that burst to 8.5x11 rather than the usual green bar.
They had 1403N1 printers with a nice looking upper/lower case
type train, the same one used to print a lot of manuals and Gries'
compiler book.

It was the same idea as the roff's we're used adjusted for card input.
The keypunches were upper case only so it automatically converted all
the text to lower case except the first letter in a sentence, with
some way to mark a letter or word to be left in upper case. In the
manual the sample sentence was (not sure about the # escape):

  IT WAS A LOUSY DAY IN #PRINCETON.

which turned into

 It was a lousy day in Princeton.

It worked well, although for me it was more hassle than it was worth
because it was a long walk from my house to the comp center or the
enngineering building where there was an RJE 360/20.

They also had a 360/67 running TSS, insofar as TSS worked which was
badly. It had an editor TYPSET and formatter RUNOFF which I think were
like the CTSS versions. The terminals were 2741s with upper/lower case
typeballs.

I never heard of anyone using any of those other than at Princeton.

[TUHS] Re: UNIX Roff Manual

[Tom Lyon]

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Jonathan - awesome!
Some Princeton timing: the 360/67 arrived in 1967, but was replaced in the
summer of 1969 by the 360/91.
BWK must've got started on the 7094 that preceded the 67, but since it was
FORTRAN the port wasn't hard.
Now I wonder what Paul Hilfinger did and whether it was still FORTRAN.

I graduated in 1978, ROFF usage was still going strong!

On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 5:42 PM Jonathan Gray <jsg@jsg.id.au> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 09:45:57PM +0000, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 17th, 2024 at 1:51 PM, segaloco <
> segaloco@protonmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Just sharing a copy of the Roff Manual that I had forgotten I scanned
> a little while back:
> > >
> > > https://archive.org/details/roff_manual
> > >
> > > This appears to be the UNIX complement to the S/360 version of the
> paper backed up by Doug here:
> https://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~doug/roff71/roff71.pdf
> > >
> > > From the best I could tell, this predates both 1973's V3 and the 1971
> S/360 version of the paper, putting it somewhere prior to 1971. For
> instance, it is missing the .ar, .hx, .ig, .ix, .ni, .nx, .ro, .ta, and .tc
> requests found in V3. The .ar and .ro, and .ta requests pop up in the S/360
> paper, the rest are in the V3 manpage (prior manpages don't list the
> request summary).
> > >
> > > If anyone has some authoritative date information I can update the
> archive description accordingly.
> > >
> > > Finally, this very well could be missing the last page, the Page
> offset, Merge patterns, and Envoi sections of Doug's paper are not
> reflected here, although at the very least, the .mg request is not in this
> paper so the Merge patterns section probably wasn't there anyway.
> > >
> > > - Matt G.
> >
> > Just a correction Tom Lyon pointed out, the 1971 BCPL paper is for a
> *GECOS*, not S/360 version, it just suggests sending the print jobs then to
> a S/360 machine, the roff itself is GECOS.
> >
> > - Matt G.
>
> Kernighan's OS/360 roff is described in
> "Manuscript Printing under OS/360: ROFF" and email linked from
> https://manpages.bsd.lv/history.html
>

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[TUHS] Re: UNIX Roff Manual

[John Levine]

It appears that Tom Lyon <pugs78@gmail.com> said:
>-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>Jonathan - awesome!
>Some Princeton timing: the 360/67 arrived in 1967, but was replaced in the
>summer of 1969 by the 360/91.

No, the /67 and /91 were there at the same time.  I used them both in high school.
I graduated in 1971 so that must have been 1969 to 71, and when I left I'm pretty
sure both were still there.

R's,
John


>BWK must've got started on the 7094 that preceded the 67, but since it was
>FORTRAN the port wasn't hard.
>Now I wonder what Paul Hilfinger did and whether it was still FORTRAN.
>
>I graduated in 1978, ROFF usage was still going strong!
>
>On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 5:42 PM Jonathan Gray <jsg@jsg.id.au> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 09:45:57PM +0000, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, July 17th, 2024 at 1:51 PM, segaloco <
>> segaloco@protonmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Just sharing a copy of the Roff Manual that I had forgotten I scanned
>> a little while back:
>> > >
>> > > https://archive.org/details/roff_manual

[TUHS] Re: UNIX Roff Manual

[Tom Lyon]

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Yeah, I wasn't specific enough.
The ownership of the model 67 changed to the State of NJ, but it was
operated and present at Princeton, until replaced by a 370/158, which in
turn changed owners back to Princeton in 75.

What OS did you use on the 67?

On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 6:58 PM John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

> It appears that Tom Lyon <pugs78@gmail.com> said:
> >-=-=-=-=-=-
> >
> >Jonathan - awesome!
> >Some Princeton timing: the 360/67 arrived in 1967, but was replaced in the
> >summer of 1969 by the 360/91.
>
> No, the /67 and /91 were there at the same time.  I used them both in high
> school.
> I graduated in 1971 so that must have been 1969 to 71, and when I left I'm
> pretty
> sure both were still there.
>
> R's,
> John
>
>
> >BWK must've got started on the 7094 that preceded the 67, but since it was
> >FORTRAN the port wasn't hard.
> >Now I wonder what Paul Hilfinger did and whether it was still FORTRAN.
> >
> >I graduated in 1978, ROFF usage was still going strong!
> >
> >On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 5:42 PM Jonathan Gray <jsg@jsg.id.au> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 09:45:57PM +0000, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
> >> > On Wednesday, July 17th, 2024 at 1:51 PM, segaloco <
> >> segaloco@protonmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Just sharing a copy of the Roff Manual that I had forgotten I
> scanned
> >> a little while back:
> >> > >
> >> > > https://archive.org/details/roff_manual
>

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[TUHS] Re: UNIX Roff Manual

[Jonathan Gray]

"It is a lousy day in Princeton" changes to
"It is a nice day in Princeton" in:

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/AD0751318.pdf
https://archive.org/details/DTIC_AD0751318/mode/2up
ROFF - A MANUSCRIPT PRINTING PROGRAM: USER’S MANUAL
Clifford E. Rhoades, Jr.
November 1972

"This particular version of ROFF is a modified form of an IBM OS/360
program written by Dr. Peter Crean as revised to incorporate equation
writing by Dr. Stephen Fulling at Princeton."

Includes a FORTRAN listing at the end.

Kernighan is not credited but the manual is clearly derived from his.

On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 06:28:49PM -0700, Tom Lyon wrote:
> Jonathan - awesome!
> Some Princeton timing: the 360/67 arrived in 1967, but was replaced in the
> summer of 1969 by the 360/91.
> BWK must've got started on the 7094 that preceded the 67, but since it was
> FORTRAN the port wasn't hard.
> Now I wonder what Paul Hilfinger did and whether it was still FORTRAN.
> 
> I graduated in 1978, ROFF usage was still going strong!
> 
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 5:42 PM Jonathan Gray <jsg@jsg.id.au> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 09:45:57PM +0000, segaloco via TUHS wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, July 17th, 2024 at 1:51 PM, segaloco <
> > segaloco@protonmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Just sharing a copy of the Roff Manual that I had forgotten I scanned
> > a little while back:
> > > >
> > > > https://archive.org/details/roff_manual
> > > >
> > > > This appears to be the UNIX complement to the S/360 version of the
> > paper backed up by Doug here:
> > https://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~doug/roff71/roff71.pdf
> > > >
> > > > From the best I could tell, this predates both 1973's V3 and the 1971
> > S/360 version of the paper, putting it somewhere prior to 1971. For
> > instance, it is missing the .ar, .hx, .ig, .ix, .ni, .nx, .ro, .ta, and .tc
> > requests found in V3. The .ar and .ro, and .ta requests pop up in the S/360
> > paper, the rest are in the V3 manpage (prior manpages don't list the
> > request summary).
> > > >
> > > > If anyone has some authoritative date information I can update the
> > archive description accordingly.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, this very well could be missing the last page, the Page
> > offset, Merge patterns, and Envoi sections of Doug's paper are not
> > reflected here, although at the very least, the .mg request is not in this
> > paper so the Merge patterns section probably wasn't there anyway.
> > > >
> > > > - Matt G.
> > >
> > > Just a correction Tom Lyon pointed out, the 1971 BCPL paper is for a
> > *GECOS*, not S/360 version, it just suggests sending the print jobs then to
> > a S/360 machine, the roff itself is GECOS.
> > >
> > > - Matt G.
> >
> > Kernighan's OS/360 roff is described in
> > "Manuscript Printing under OS/360: ROFF" and email linked from
> > https://manpages.bsd.lv/history.html
> >

[TUHS] Re: UNIX Roff Manual

[arnold]

Jonathan Gray <jsg@jsg.id.au> wrote:

> Kernighan's OS/360 roff is described in
> "Manuscript Printing under OS/360: ROFF" and email linked from
> https://manpages.bsd.lv/history.html

The "high resolution" scan seems to have multiple duplicated
pages...  It's neat to see: printed on green bar! :-)

Arnold