From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,NICE_REPLY_A, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 4539 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2021 07:17:53 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 9 Feb 2021 07:17:53 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 80C859C6CE; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 17:17:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AECD9BA43; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 17:17:26 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="OBnFtauK"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id CE9809BA43; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 17:17:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oi1-f178.google.com (mail-oi1-f178.google.com [209.85.167.178]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F04059BA42 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 17:17:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oi1-f178.google.com with SMTP id g84so4654512oib.0 for ; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 23:17:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=nrIoi+vUADF1EdSfwpcpmfXcEXq/IytVPf2b3Cha4uw=; b=OBnFtauKKXpZjE2EdH0iMT9NzeDHtItay1QcKBSF5ZhyU/2+I4QKQKCNprgWGEiedD qye9WNTfflWYs76Zm7Y8ACZEfjLXIMfDBrlCDwrmOuTtus7pQxsQ6RkO2fLCF5J7Ycl2 0xPGU7SNa1ozDxUwCj/ONDatgsWnRlhrMDjSiGpxeOLWzqHyW7pHcKkB8Nm2MJ5fR5UG mo7hJtfsqzKn+UXf5bx1seBpXzq8cFxhdhSaGV88rvGR2O5EFKvl+29bLvfM6m8Fq8AI h1M/MZ8XDwPiKQZ8I/98xkx7C6dzFMB+wzKaB29VBccRLMLX+PrKGiGU/JGPEFPGBEcu 0U+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=nrIoi+vUADF1EdSfwpcpmfXcEXq/IytVPf2b3Cha4uw=; b=sOxMBGDVFv+JZ3+Qqqk36QbsY31f+YoF6oHgvrqCGJpDNQYjLCiyLG0ZjwcZILyMkk pgxuh3YPcTn2UP4H6P643jmzES//v8c4PGCQuAx7z1FuoySgGhH8dgp3dGvvK2TykcB3 QGurIkjU5L3aIvweicLvw65hfZd5Aj9nQZdAU1Ldx+LXWYoSAGdLyaVr6va3Qx/F1SFY yoQDrylyW+eROcfBHClqSH2OE25QiRt0DGszbmeSeXBJ2gPkB0sHQhJ6iwImb4pNRCVp q4aPqh2rhTHipeDXGV0ytRNDY7dre+Iae1UQImgwb1TRGaq67ftErF9eo/cTGzlZy4M8 e07g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530gveS2MR/EmBJB5n18LqGSaX05CgSttjYuwxG/9kV3ZoRaZdXN APs9yDNPqBDUlB0mR1KVDguf55qsX2LeIw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx7CB9YcE03JMp9ntHNJ+LxAb806QFUZtnV0BHW07fvAEKlUeQhOBLMdxY3d28PmNVGf6YcJQ== X-Received: by 2002:aca:d643:: with SMTP id n64mr1671599oig.28.1612855042592; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 23:17:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.local ([12.154.58.98]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k207sm2646874oih.32.2021.02.08.23.17.21 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Feb 2021 23:17:22 -0800 (PST) To: John Gilmore , Henry Bent References: <5372.1612853750@hop.toad.com> From: Will Senn Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 01:17:21 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <5372.1612853750@hop.toad.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [TUHS] Macs and future unix derivatives X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 2/9/21 12:55 AM, John Gilmore wrote: > Henry Bent wrote: >> Apple loves to move quickly and abandon >> compatibility, and in that respect it's an interesting counterpoint to >> Linux or a *BSD where you can have decades old binaries that still run. > That was true decades ago, but no longer. In the intervening time, all > the major Linux distributions have stopped releasing OS's that support > 32-bit machines. Even those that support 32-bit CPUs have often > desupported the earlier CPUs (like, what was wrong with the 80386?). > Essentially NO applications require 64-bit address spaces, so arguably > if they wanted to lessen their workload, they should have desupported > the 64-bit architectures (or made kernels and OS's that would run on > both from a single release). But that wouldn't give them the > gee-whiz-look-at-all-the-new-features feeling. > > I ran 32-bit OS releases on all my 64-bit x86 hardware for years. They > ran faster and smaller than the amd64 versions, and also ran old > binaries for more than a decade. But their vendors and support teams > decided that doing the release-engineering to keep them running was more > work than pulling the plug. > > Even Fedora has desupported the One Laptop Per Child hardware now -- no > new releases for millions of kids! And desupported all the other cheap > Intel mobile CPUs, let alone your typical desktop 80386, 80486, or > Pentium. Have you tried running Linux on a machine without a GPU > these days? It's truly sad that to gain stupid animated window tricks, > they broke compatability with millions of existing systems. > > Here's one overview of the niche distros that still have x86 support: > > https://fossbytes.com/best-lightweight-linux-distros/ > > Even those are dropping like flies, e.g. Ubuntu MATE now says "For older > hardware based on i386. Supported until April 2021", i.e. only til next > month! The PuppyLinux.com web site is now a 404. Etc. > > (I'm not up on what the BSD releases are doing.) > > John > Sigh... 32bit will be 2nd tier in FreeBSD 13 :)