From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 23334 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2021 16:11:16 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 16 Nov 2021 16:11:16 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5E6349C664; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 02:11:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EF0D9C203; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 02:10:56 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ronnatalie.com header.i=@ronnatalie.com header.b="APP5p3PT"; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b="Wrjmbnmn"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 690CF9C203; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 02:10:54 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 528 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 02:10:53 AEST Received: from wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.19]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1ECC9C1E1 for ; Wed, 17 Nov 2021 02:10:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A07E3200E89 for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 11:02:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 16 Nov 2021 11:02:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ronnatalie.com; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to:references :reply-to:mime-version:content-type; s=fm2; bh=aLNAPuj6vVGQLgaoB 27cuGz7OJ6jE+2Qb+qQ3qdgPRs=; b=APP5p3PT2OTFhuOlRM7bE8ZCz7MpXwDTr 3h5c2BtWOle7r+3vCnbqj9EerEsi0CiuEKRf/Qtd1fn30GakuzURjhyjCNT2dsyv H2PGI29m3mXwRER2IGRP8z8IOQHp/HuUit2a05NtH4whaUTjyuKtquwWMl/f0tjD CGsBfc0kQcpn5gYPWvY/A1oFeTEa0FjflbnKzhv/3yHfkHUTixCJGBUA61SvAoo2 7OAiXmNFNMIuWlZylhm4Ck/Ugg2DuC9md0M66cgKMrfUta2aK875F7dRUGOwPnMn pKFiwzb78WN6za/rfAx9lhVE1cp9ZwRxMZ+XkHhsqn7/Z+0YzhXeg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:to :x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm1; bh=aLNAPuj6vVGQLgaoB27cuGz7OJ6jE+2Qb+qQ3qdgPRs=; b=Wrjmbnmn YA8FNP256X7cmskyL2ladsz/oVTxhpX2gfY3AgYFTE8od233PQrAYBfr/g7O0lZP 72QIqIBpkzaIX1VWlp+KAF6vJC+TWPRW00sQBHyyZdpQCGTWcLXXOxgJuWMLRRt3 7WU0VMTQbNa+keeKmcx0i0/dneuzVWF2xKz/Ovcbrccbgt3aRIExZCD3AqYNXlqJ 7QGH+NDZC/4TBxqbx2JeZ94bXRw4ge7k4ycvq3rLFg7xrzRnqWIGk7ABVdgQD+xm 4O37YQPQnL0dKgbaU60AbRbH9w/pXsy0ACWtIsZ7uFnaXEY3Vh60Ax1XnSw+pzvg O7sxRmS4NIcX0Q== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvuddrfedvgdekudcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefhvffufffkjghfrhgfgggtsegrtderredtreejnecuhfhrohhmpedftfhonhcu pfgrthgrlhhivgdfuceorhhonhesrhhonhhnrghtrghlihgvrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpeeludetlefhkeehleejhffhjefgkeetffejledvhefhvdffgeejfeeihfei keekffenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe hrohhnsehrohhnnhgrthgrlhhivgdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA for ; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 11:02:04 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron Natalie" To: "TUHS main list" Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 16:02:03 +0000 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20211116040858.se3ygq2butxqopcx@localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: eM_Client/8.2.1659.0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------=_MBB20C3D67-E9C1-4A22-B835-4E21156C62C1" Subject: [TUHS] BASIC, RSTS, and UNIX X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Ron Natalie Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --------=_MBB20C3D67-E9C1-4A22-B835-4E21156C62C1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My BASIC experience came from the HP/2000 (and the HP/3000) systems the=20 Prince George's County (MD) schools had at the time. When I moved on=20 to Johns Hopkins, I was sent a letter in advance of my freshman year=20 from professor Bill Huggins who taught one of the freshman EE classes. =20 The class was to use Basic Plus on a PDP-11/45s using the UNIX=20 operating system. Now at this point, I had a friend whose mother=20 worked in the local DEC (Lanham, MD) office and would let us raid the=20 stock room for things like processor handbooks and the like. I was=20 able to find out about Basic Plus and PDP-11/45 but I was unable to find=20 anything about this UNIX thing. Of course, once I got there I found that the EE computer center was=20 largely run by students under the name of the Undergraduate Computer=20 Society. Mike Muuss was in charge and they had made a deal that if=20 they could get BasicPlus migrated over from RSTS, they could run UNIX on=20 the machine. It turned out not to be that difficult. RSTS, like=20 most DEC OSes, for some reason used EMT for the system calls (contrary=20 to what the processor handbook would recommend). UNIX used TRAP. =20 This means all they had to do is emulate a few RSTS calls. In=20 addition, the only change I believe was to add a system call that=20 disabled the UNIX idea of stack management (Basic Plus like many DEC=20 programs of the day used a relatively small stack in low memory because=20 the actual register saves, etc... were stored elsewhere, it was just=20 function call linkage). The system call was obviously called=20 "nostack." This hadn't been Mike's only foray into Basic. He had his own IBM=20 1130 and had written a Basic interpretter under contract for the=20 Baltimore County Public Schools. I remember sitting in the "KSR room"=20 at Hopkins and watching him preparing the invoice for payment. Please remit $3000, no stamps please. That last part caused a bit of=20 consternation at the school district. Amusingly, I have my little Raspberry Pi scale model 11/70 front panel=20 churning away on my desk. I can switch it from booting up various=20 UNIXes (mostly I run 2.9 BSD hacked to somewhat look like JHU UNIX) and=20 RSTS which reinforces why we used to refer to it as the Really Sh-tty=20 Timesharing System. --------=_MBB20C3D67-E9C1-4A22-B835-4E21156C62C1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My BASIC experience c= ame from the HP/2000 (and the HP/3000) systems the Prince George's County (= MD) schools had at the time.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0When I moved on to Johns Ho= pkins, I was sent a letter in advance of my freshman year from professor Bi= ll Huggins who taught one of the freshman EE classes.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The class = was to use Basic=C2=A0 Plus on a PDP-11/45s using the UNIX operating syste= m.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Now at this point, I had a friend whose mother worked in th= e local DEC (Lanham, MD) office and would let us raid the stock room for th= ings like processor handbooks and the like.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I was able to find = out about Basic Plus and PDP-11/45 but I was unable to find anything about = this UNIX thing.

Of course, once I got there I= found that the EE computer center was largely run by students under the nam= e of the Undergraduate Computer Society.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Mike Muuss was in char= ge and they had made a deal that if they could get BasicPlus migrated over= from RSTS, they could run UNIX on the machine.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 It turned out n= ot to be that difficult.=C2=A0 =C2=A0RSTS, like most DEC OSes, for some rea= son used EMT for the system calls (contrary to what the processor handbook= would recommend).=C2=A0 =C2=A0UNIX used TRAP.=C2=A0 =C2=A0This means all th= ey had to do is emulate a few RSTS calls.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In addition, the onl= y change I believe was to add a system call that disabled the UNIX idea of= stack management (Basic Plus like many DEC programs of the day used a relat= ively small stack in low memory because the actual register saves, etc... w= ere stored elsewhere, it was just function call linkage).=C2=A0 =C2=A0The s= ystem call was obviously called "nostack."

This= hadn't been Mike's only foray into Basic.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 He had his own IBM 1= 130 and had written a Basic interpretter under contract for the Baltimore C= ounty Public Schools.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I remember sitting in the "KSR room" at H= opkins and watching him preparing the invoice for payment.
Please = remit $3000, no stamps please.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 That last part caused a bit of = consternation at the school district.

Amusingly= , I have my little Raspberry Pi scale model 11/70 front panel churning away = on my desk.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I can switch it from booting up various UNIXes (m= ostly I run 2.9 BSD hacked to somewhat look like JHU UNIX) and RSTS which r= einforces why we used to refer to it as the Really Sh-tty Timesharing Syste= m.


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