From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D76425122 for ; Fri, 13 Dec 2024 17:58:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79C64426DD; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 02:58:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from fout-b2-smtp.messagingengine.com (fout-b2-smtp.messagingengine.com [202.12.124.145]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9320E4263B for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 02:58:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: from phl-compute-07.internal (phl-compute-07.phl.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailfout.stl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67AB91140218; Fri, 13 Dec 2024 11:58:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-02 ([10.202.2.163]) by phl-compute-07.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 13 Dec 2024 11:58:24 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ronnatalie.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type :date:date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:references:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:to :to; s=fm3; t=1734109104; x=1734195504; bh=4ELSMvLNJuIXnkbcIjhNr rj1k9s+Lmiq4zsjWNSFMt0=; b=UDHjGK2VUGrktbWnvpBPPSPouOAJB9bXGcp0u NVs2KN9H6FCFS1Jg3L/uLY++wIbOJ8ywUDsSvOXKWSeQX1ndiTYqkDo2SetF71n/ TY5Oon5YITunhB9QIXHSzpAwPuuW+8gAmNDPiLd94uCxxCVTfhjuA8Q20OUkRmqp tJuAuzzjFMnsZrbmg3cmRe3xBST1FCvf6HwEY9vm5UaTbFL0P6ZYbj9YLJGByb8h nPbQO3TxNq5KM+MvHtvbynylbzTs3wxk9j28oPJ0MXuTIrCXo8WITYUpU7GKyQb/ fZXY3DYs3TC4btu+0E7GeUtKXsx1xe6oy5vus1E7rfAWNMy3Q== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t=1734109104; x= 1734195504; bh=4ELSMvLNJuIXnkbcIjhNrrj1k9s+Lmiq4zsjWNSFMt0=; b=4 zkA13spUJ2ng60Sfw50R2Ke9cz/lcv97UqYgxJZzoiqX0vbZ++ZAbjxZAzKUuDSO qwW1UkoB0A0jOIQ87AJeT7rsxFN7Pl5oCOGh+E3FaE7oyUXHhLT5Ldvxia+7Bx7o iJITdxR7294ShXQJ+cH/uLCib0WqaFnIa/PigbX6xiRoBP+AgEhJpVyYr1QUjInX B3Po/zkTzfaOseno3kAwlTfe8ggI24zRyOUt3kZgl2QncYQYmWPmJ2GChRYtWOTl 6KfQh1lQmlFaBiGk1SRSYRy04xsHYrVqa6mV8YJV9fvCmpjFv5YUXY2PybDVb+O4 yuI1bAz9awzR3l8jGbujQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefuddrkeejgdelgecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpuffr tefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnth hsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefhvffuveffkfgjfhhrfgggtgfgsehtqhertddtreej necuhfhrohhmpedftfhonhgrlhguucfprghtrghlihgvfdcuoehrohhnsehrohhnnhgrth grlhhivgdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepleegkefhgeffveevffethedthfdu hfetgefgudefjedthfduhedujeevfffgkeejnecuffhomhgrihhnpehmtghvohihrdgtoh hmnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomheprhho nhesrhhonhhnrghtrghlihgvrdgtohhmpdhnsggprhgtphhtthhopeefpdhmohguvgepsh hmthhpohhuthdprhgtphhtthhopehlmhesmhgtvhhohidrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopegt lhgvmhgtsegttggtrdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtohepthhuhhhssehtuhhhshdrohhrgh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: iaba146ad:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 13 Dec 2024 11:58:23 -0500 (EST) From: "Ronald Natalie" To: "Larry McVoy" , "Clem Cole" Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2024 16:58:22 +0000 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20241213155336.GV11590@mcvoy.com> References: <20241213155336.GV11590@mcvoy.com> User-Agent: eM_Client/10.0.3530.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: NNW7Y3YUX7BO3J7OYA6GTRVY5YA6WIMJ X-Message-ID-Hash: NNW7Y3YUX7BO3J7OYA6GTRVY5YA6WIMJ X-MailFrom: ron@ronnatalie.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: TUHS X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Ronald Natalie Subject: [TUHS] Re: BSD talk program? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Anybody remember jtalk? It was a hacked version of talk that ran your=20 input through the =E2=80=9Cjive filter=E2=80=9D. Slap ma fro! ------ Original Message ------ >From "Larry McVoy" To "Clem Cole" Cc "TUHS" Date 12/13/2024 10:53:36=E2=80=AFAM Subject [TUHS] Re: BSD talk program? >I loved talk when CS was running BSD on a VAX. You could see who was on >and talk them. Very handy and it was sort of social. > >It's crazy how things were back then, open ports listening for all sorts >of things. I think we were pretty unaware of how nasty the internet would >get. > >On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 10:22:22AM -0500, Clem Cole wrote: >> As for the motivation -- it was simple. UCB is on a hill. I lived at= the >> base of hill and I only wanted to walk up it once a day. Our office w= as a >> big pool of about 20 of us next to the CAD machine room on the second f= loor >> of Cory Hall. Somebody was usually in the office most nights, but not >> everyone. We all had modems and terminals at home, but only one phone >> line. We had 3 Vaxes in the CAD group, plus my Array Processor. So I >> wanted to be able to ask someone like Peter or TQ to reset the AP for m= e if >> I hosed it when I was working from home when I was debugging it. Plus >> the obvious social aspects -- "hey you want go get a Pizza/Beer etc..." >> But since we might be working on a different system, Kipps' hack was >> useless. >> ??? >> ??? >> ??? >> ??? >> >> On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 10:14???AM Clem Cole wrote: >> >> > Yes -- I can give this history. >> > Kipp wrote an early version for 4.1BSD - but it is not the version in = the >> > releases. It ran on Ernie and did not do as much. >> > I had used a different program on the PDP-10's and the ARPANET and I >> > started over when Joy added sockets for 4.1A. I also made the infamou= s use >> > of vax integers instead of network integers (and I knew better - but= really >> > did not think about until a few years later when I was at Masscomp an= d >> > compiled it for the 68000 -- ugh). That version still had a couple o= f bugs >> > in it (i.e. hung in the 4.1A networking code occasionally), but worke= d well >> > enough on the CAD systems. I went away to a USENIX conference and wh= ile I >> > was gone, my officemate Peter (Moore) took my code and fixed the pro= blem, >> > plus he put it into RCS. I gave that to Sam and that's the version= that >> > went out in 4.1C and beyond. >> > >> > Clem >> > >> > >> > ??? >> > ??? >> > >> > On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 9:29???AM Dan Cross wrote: >> > >> >> I'm curious if anyone has any history they can share about the BSD >> >> "talk" program. >> >> >> >> I was fond of this back when it was still (relatively) common, but >> >> given the way it's architected I definitely see why it fell out of u= se >> >> as the Internet grew. Still, does anybody know what the history behi= nd >> >> it is? Initially, I thought it was written by Mike Karels, but that >> >> was just my speculation from SCCS spelunking, and looking at the >> >> sources from 4.2, I see RCS header strings that indicate it was >> >> written by "moore" (Peter Moore?). talk.c says, "Written by Kipp >> >> Hickman". >> >> >> >> It seems to have arrived pretty early on with respect to the >> >> introduction of TCP/IP in BSD: the README alludes to some things >> >> coming up in 4.1c. Clem, you seem to have had a hand in it, and are >> >> credited (along with Peter Moore) for making it work on 4.1a. >> >> >> >> So I guess the question is, what was the motivation? Was it just to >> >> have a more pleasing user-to-user communications experience, or was >> >> discussion across the network an explicit goal? There's a note in >> >> talk.c ("Modified to run between hosts by Peter Moore, 8/19/82") tha= t >> >> suggests this wasn't the original intent. Who thought up the >> >> character-at-a-time display mode? >> >> >> >> Thanks for any insights. >> >> >> >> - Dan C. >> >> >> > > >-- >--- >Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/= boat