From: "Ronald Natalie" <ron@ronnatalie.com>
To: "Kenneth Goodwin" <kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com>,
"Will Senn" <will.senn@gmail.com>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: [TUHS] Re: Split addressing (I/D) space (inspired by the death of the python... thread)
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2023 21:10:14 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <emc5ba4f43-13ab-4113-8ef3-3ed9c0d876a2@1984688d.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAMQbRb2e6ef5926wW=w=QjpzdHE2zSFa10jofdNH0b=dUkPOPg@mail.gmail.com>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2765 bytes --]
Having cut my UNIX teeth on the JHU 11/45, I can tell you very much that
it did have split I/D. V6 supported split I/D for user mode programs.
The kernel originally wasn’t split I/D. Version 7, if I’m recalling
properly, did run the kernel split I/D on the 45 and 70.
------ Original Message ------
From "Kenneth Goodwin" <kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com>
To "Will Senn" <will.senn@gmail.com>
Cc "The Eunuchs Hysterical Society" <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Date 8/3/23, 5:05:31 PM
Subject [TUHS] Re: Split addressing (I/D) space (inspired by the death
of the python... thread)
>At the risk of exposing my ignorance and thus being events long long
>ago in history....
>And my mind now old and feeble...
>
>😆 🤣
>
>1. I don't think the 11/45 had split I & d.
>But I could be wrong.
>That did not appear until the 11/70
>And was in the later generation 11/44 several years later.
>
>2. The kernel determined it by MMU type and managed it solely. The
>assembler and loader always built the binary object file as the three
>sections - instructions, data and bss spaces so loading an object file
>could be done on any platform.
>Programmers generally did not worry about the underlying hardware
>
>3. I don't recall if a systype style system call was available in v7 to
>give you a machine type to switch off of.
>
>With something like that you could determine memory availability hard
>limits on the DATA/bss side if you needed to.
>
>But that was also easily determined by a allocation failure in
>malloc/sbrk with an out of memory error.
>
>If you really needed to know availability, you could have a start up
>subroutine that would loop trying to malloc ever decreasing memory
>sizes until success and until out of available memory error.
>Then release it all back via free(). Or manage it internally.
>
>As I recall however vaguely, there was an attempt to split the kernel
>into two pieces. One running in kernel mode and one running in
>supervisor mode in order to double the amount of available instruction
>and data spaces for the operating system. I recall playing around with
>what was there trying to get it to work right.
>I was trying to support over 200 users on a pdp 11/70 at the time
>running a massive insurance database system.
>
>On Thu, Aug 3, 2023, 4:35 PM Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Does unix (v7) know about the PDP-11 45's split I/D space through
>>configuration or is it convention and programmer's responsibility to
>>know and manage what's actually available?
>>
>>Will
>>
>>On 8/3/23 12:00, Rich Salz wrote:
>> > What, we all need something to kick now that we've beaten sendmail?
>> > How about something unix, ideally a decade old?
>>
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4845 bytes --]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-08-03 21:10 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 83+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-07-30 18:22 [TUHS] Re: Cool talk on Unix and Sendmail history, by Eric Allman Norman Wilson
2023-07-30 21:43 ` Rob Pike
2023-07-30 23:34 ` George Michaelson
2023-07-30 23:59 ` Erik E. Fair
2023-07-31 0:26 ` Warner Losh
2023-07-31 22:57 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2023-07-31 23:05 ` Warner Losh
2023-08-01 2:45 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2023-08-01 1:51 ` Niklas Karlsson
2023-08-01 2:47 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2023-08-01 3:20 ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-07-31 0:41 ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-08-01 9:22 ` Marc Donner
2023-08-01 10:58 ` Erik E. Fair
2023-08-02 0:37 ` Dave Horsfall
2023-08-02 14:52 ` Ron Natalie
2023-08-02 21:14 ` Grant Taylor via TUHS
2023-08-02 22:20 ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-08-02 22:37 ` Warner Losh
2023-08-02 23:49 ` Rich Salz
2023-08-03 0:51 ` [TUHS] Re: python Larry McVoy
2023-08-03 1:20 ` George Michaelson
2023-08-03 2:53 ` Bakul Shah
2023-08-03 2:55 ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-08-03 3:24 ` George Michaelson
2023-08-03 3:32 ` Warner Losh
2023-08-03 3:55 ` Bakul Shah
2023-08-03 8:32 ` Rob Pike
2023-08-03 14:19 ` Bakul Shah
2023-08-03 14:56 ` Dan Halbert
2023-08-03 15:20 ` will.senn
2023-08-03 22:05 ` Dan Cross
2023-08-04 0:24 ` John Cowan
2023-08-04 15:17 ` Dan Cross
2023-08-05 4:44 ` Bakul Shah
2023-08-03 15:41 ` John Cowan
2023-08-03 2:07 ` Clem Cole
2023-08-03 2:21 ` Pete Wright via TUHS
2023-08-03 2:56 ` Warner Losh
2023-08-03 12:36 ` Mike Markowski
2023-08-03 13:29 ` Rob Pike
2023-08-03 15:24 ` emanuel stiebler
2023-08-03 15:39 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2023-08-04 1:01 ` Larry McVoy
2023-08-04 1:28 ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-08-04 1:58 ` Adam Thornton
2023-08-04 15:04 ` Dan Cross
2023-08-04 15:10 ` Larry McVoy
2023-08-03 16:57 ` [TUHS] Re: [TULSA] " Phil Budne
2023-08-03 17:00 ` Rich Salz
2023-08-03 20:35 ` [TUHS] Split addressing (I/D) space (inspired by the death of the python... thread) Will Senn
2023-08-03 21:05 ` [TUHS] " Kenneth Goodwin
2023-08-03 21:10 ` Ronald Natalie [this message]
2023-08-03 21:16 ` Warner Losh
2023-08-03 21:24 ` Ronald Natalie
2023-08-03 22:34 ` Kenneth Goodwin
2023-08-03 21:05 ` Ronald Natalie
2023-08-03 21:44 ` Clem Cole
2023-08-03 22:08 ` Will Senn
2023-08-03 22:54 ` Clem Cole
2023-08-03 23:08 ` Dave Horsfall
2023-08-03 23:15 ` Clem Cole
2023-08-04 0:38 ` John Cowan
2023-08-03 17:29 ` [TUHS] Re: [TULSA] Re: python Alejandro Colomar
2023-08-03 17:51 ` John Cowan
2023-08-03 18:05 ` Alejandro Colomar
2023-08-03 21:29 ` Dan Cross
2023-08-03 23:55 ` [TUHS] printf (was: python) Alejandro Colomar
2023-08-04 16:06 ` [TUHS] " Dan Cross
2023-08-04 16:57 ` Alejandro Colomar
2023-08-04 21:16 ` Dan Cross
2023-08-03 21:02 ` [TUHS] Re: [TULSA] Re: python Steffen Nurpmeso
2023-08-03 23:47 ` Larry McVoy
2023-08-03 23:54 ` Will Senn
2023-08-04 19:20 ` [TUHS] " Ed Bradford
2023-08-04 19:47 ` Larry McVoy
2023-08-05 5:40 ` Ed Bradford
2023-08-02 23:33 ` [TUHS] Re: Cool talk on Unix and Sendmail history, by Eric Allman Dave Horsfall
2023-08-03 21:48 [TUHS] Re: Split addressing (I/D) space (inspired by the death of the python... thread) Noel Chiappa
2023-08-03 23:10 Noel Chiappa
2023-08-03 23:42 ` Warner Losh
2023-08-03 23:14 Steve Simon
2023-08-04 21:40 Noel Chiappa
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=emc5ba4f43-13ab-4113-8ef3-3ed9c0d876a2@1984688d.com \
--to=ron@ronnatalie.com \
--cc=kennethgoodwin56@gmail.com \
--cc=tuhs@tuhs.org \
--cc=will.senn@gmail.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).