From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 30698 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2021 02:35:37 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 22 Feb 2021 02:35:37 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id A6E299CA9F; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 12:35:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66E4093D39; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 12:35:05 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="THQJw3OE"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id D6A8D93D39; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 12:35:01 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ot1-f44.google.com (mail-ot1-f44.google.com [209.85.210.44]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 093AB93D32 for ; Mon, 22 Feb 2021 12:34:58 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ot1-f44.google.com with SMTP id r19so3394603otk.2 for ; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:34:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :content-language; bh=U8B4T6Ntr1bd2LVZV2Gr08Vh37z8nkjGjwdi6I+lZME=; b=THQJw3OECyBBWSbpy++n/EcWl34lW69QRi50ugwsptUfk/+IMbWu2GngDg3AQiSElv 1dykw/eD9RxIWCvijJF7z6/mVQeZQzOrzNZemE+0e6CKAYOIN6/SNV9c63ItU6idlmye 87JRSZVj9ZUadULzxZA4iQFpjvYH0eZ1LmsSAxAkfIrIrhYAx1EncZVpgDS+XWoE6MMI Pk0CQtWDf5pqLewfyA8YD75OsNf/qVYYcikKJved2P2aSbQWtXi9urjlwvr+xM8C3RWM WVAGwBKEbyM0rQ0NL5oCCoSmxhhOz9nGwdfU0cfTCZ+H+uFpH2/2v2uqoMX1lNJqwQH+ Ujww== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:from:subject:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:content-language; bh=U8B4T6Ntr1bd2LVZV2Gr08Vh37z8nkjGjwdi6I+lZME=; b=QIlMQrwGOelj3QrGuhNl8KNLx6387pz7Mp3CUrqgnWw2ve5um1WQ3QNjv46FWQZEhX fhR34S8YisaNq/7iLHAgB+N6OLe0Ajrtym10suB7q7CoSiXz099ydMeW884YZu6F9ILA jKcCMLk4ZQEI/sMmYQc5EJLP4HuN+r/yOER6BYMZSmSjp+O69cJ7MyqKmEZ9DtUKaRPO 8Wd2f+0MuquEBCT+Nfvy/5Q900SJI5v/yc14vHxY/nJ31uY9tITcejTML+JDUAuHgXVc mZA2j+0aTFaIdxOkwO0vfWk4OD7yDffB5RRfQD2yk1YO97YrCb2MtV+2ARBC/kAaREt0 vygg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530W7mGmqZ/Xk445QSdEmWEUsuRKBmH1QZjWiYTPeOg0xZH6b/W0 vsNc+lQ0T0DpbGVkA6DSSkgh3C1+Nu5k5w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxuyBM0Um9/f30GoB9VXs6q0tPt9lFzJvEWjlRYLlHcHIxWge2qJUdfRJpuEHztUFOHfHoRbA== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:1429:: with SMTP id h38mr15346466oth.135.1613961296871; Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:34:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.local (99-139-148-170.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net. [99.139.148.170]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j5sm3461367oij.48.2021.02.21.18.34.55 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:34:56 -0800 (PST) To: TUHS main list From: Will Senn Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 20:34:55 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------FCDF30F2F4209188FADF8B54" Content-Language: en-US Subject: [TUHS] Proliferation of options is great simplification of pipes, really? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------FCDF30F2F4209188FADF8B54 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, So, we've been talking low-level design for a while. I thought I would ask a fundamental question. In days of old, we built small single-purpose utilities and used pipes to pipeline the data and transformations. Even back in the day, it seemed that there was tension to add yet another option to every utility. Today, as I was marveling at groff's abilities with regard to printing my man pages directly to my printer in 2021, I read the groff(1) page: example here: https://linux.die.net/man/1/groff What struck me (the wrong way) was the second paragraph of the description: The groff program allows to control the whole groff system by command line options. This is a great simplification in comparison to the classical case (which uses pipes only). Here is the current plethora of options: groff [-abcegilpstzCEGNRSUVXZ] [-d cs] [-f fam] [-F dir] [-I dir] [-L arg] [-m name] [-M dir] [-n num] [-o list] [-P arg] [-r cn] [-T dev] [-w name] [-W name] [file ...] Now, I appreciate groff, don't get me wrong, but my sensibilities were offended by the idea that a kazillion options was in any way simpler than pipelining single-purpose utilities. What say you? Is this the perfected logical extension of the unix pioneers' work, or have we gone horribly off the trail. Regards, Will --------------FCDF30F2F4209188FADF8B54 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All,

So, we've been talking low-level design for a while. I thought I would ask a fundamental question. In days of old, we built small single-purpose utilities and used pipes to pipeline the data and transformations. Even back in the day, it seemed that there was tension to add yet another option to every utility. Today, as I was marveling at groff's abilities with regard to printing my man pages directly to my printer in 2021, I read the groff(1) page:

example here: https://linux.die.net/man/1/groff

What struck me (the wrong way) was the second paragraph of the description:

The groff program allows to control the whole groff system by command line options. This is a great simplification in comparison to the classical case (which uses pipes only).

Here is the current plethora of options:
groff [-abcegilpstzCEGNRSUVXZ] [-d cs] [-f fam] [-F dir] [-I dir] [-L arg] [-m name] [-M dir] [-n num] [-o list] [-P arg] [-r cn] [-T dev] [-w name] [-W name] [file ...]

Now, I appreciate groff, don't get me wrong, but my sensibilities were offended by the idea that a kazillion options was in any way simpler than pipelining single-purpose utilities. What say you? Is this the perfected logical extension of the unix pioneers' work, or have we gone horribly off the trail.

Regards,

Will
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