From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25706 invoked from network); 21 May 2020 23:46:14 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 21 May 2020 23:46:14 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 13BEF9C909; Fri, 22 May 2020 09:46:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 849389C6FC; Fri, 22 May 2020 09:45:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 714899C6FC; Fri, 22 May 2020 09:45:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: from kvm5.telegraphics.com.au (kvm5.telegraphics.com.au [98.124.60.144]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6B0F9C5EE for ; Fri, 22 May 2020 09:45:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: from [10.210.249.17] (unknown [10.210.249.17]) by kvm5.telegraphics.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id D590E29A52; Thu, 21 May 2020 19:45:36 -0400 (EDT) To: Clem Cole References: <8a2e9b1b-8890-a783-5b53-c8480c070f2e@telegraphics.com.au> From: Toby Thain Autocrypt: addr=toby@telegraphics.com.au; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFVqRckBCACdUBQ565VYFZgKu+JjAeV2T/QIITeO+kPhViKuWooJADKB0Xra+AUSilML bmLYIPE1ZAWU3b12q0IxofU9wLe2AyQ/KIrUN891Fydhdsg6xVXRITrDobHUTyMQ8KlXMXO4 zsUq5TtlNkNbHOw6WCyoRpWUYJ1otpWVnjKLJFsvbSgtdjn2fZOLHL00wjZL+oYsFcx7aiYg bRQ7oO7nnDz7NyM/gsGWJazFLpZs1tuJSjR/ruYHCqyCa3VX1FaquVrHPkOWg0D5npDaSCWX 3OgbrarP75l43DLBuROuSJkZvLs41jrkhFeFSik2nZUwiSZWzsWAUMGMGCbGU2LljArzABEB AAG0L1RvYnkgVGhhaW4gKE1hYyBQcm8pIDx0b2J5QHRlbGVncmFwaGljcy5jb20uYXU+iQFP BBMBAgA5AhsDBgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgBYhBAVB4kPONsxSK13M05k7tV74 aS2yBQJb7srkAAoJEJk7tV74aS2yhZ0IAIB0xPUNyDPf0euMXBV6c0Of0DF7Xvg/z3322jWP sHSyIcv2+Th4cByNjUC/IdMmwLWLKGclN/t8arDLl2UaT3FgPUCZLHP+SYgtkdyw4iXhByD4 wl8E23IU08tq9MouO9IQ9PJs0szkBS/HorAaK1dHt01HyuF72Batb6RTtvNYz4LIr6ECwgAS geRSt1olUds3pXPgwZYD/l4NAJOwDuKTtNGo0867zUn82703wWnLC4BupvcMs31jI4GJU6Nl wuVEpo3KQbaEJiaddTGkMGwOlSaPaDc6/6bl62X0LmJL9JCDefudqJEe23HjQVrwqZbJ6hZG vgLmjwH8SKAl/xG5AQ0EVWpFyQEIALgVpxkG/EwDLpu3l3qPGzwdoUVh1ciunWc8N7h4n+0y H90BtCjhDR96tOpfCDOpNA9iazOHdSPDaoufEdvbSZCAAFZwOom6xVKMv0SnYB7CPXdVrb7K F9PgJlQ1LKKapCQYsOAaOb3V1nNfz8UvU0o7CUUa6ko/DCCR9+QiqsrPbErS4L4RbU4yuxcb 1rE0g83fiom/ypG/2z+6d0z8HX5oG6PLqpbAJ56a+UtGDMFvpKVkI8au93YMDCyUa8KGgsfc GWpVaxab8YkJOIgpEEaPRa5meo/UFFxfF8SmIoSiHfrMbNx83Vl0FCexuoKhNOOF2A3F+q+D i+5Q7TtkHMkAEQEAAYkBHwQYAQIACQUCVWpFyQIbDAAKCRCZO7Ve+Gktso0VB/0cNfygjw1u k/JE/xIa0D+oD+lYhjIS40v9aazGmwihGjZi29YWw6njh60j8eUu8FSmB2Rl1eLWGTG2TGz9 u3gOHpniymeeFAWPqRUVJRHRSeDxdJaV7Nx3KGysjeTj2IRHA7gU2SHClrWFZ0g5Vy75oOCk 2VeCNC7kN7PemGIlgu4zOqDDX/jUlrUoUAqTaoT4MAQNuG8dyLyE3sfrC4n7qbG1TxUGTXuS LFphJQSDcvn0WAdolwTZ3YT8cwq2KrQDbmESg425J8cdqmaMI5mJgucWf4tmAEMyjde1jRYh oQDyMgQXXY/+QvS5a7dpz4l9UZwz1bXTr32jJ/+UKrHM Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 19:45:36 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [TUHS] History of popularity of C X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 2020-05-21 4:56 PM, Clem Cole wrote: > > > On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 12:17 PM Toby Thain > wrote: > > - inexpensive compiler availability was not very good until ~1990 > orlater, > > Hrrumpt  The Gnu C compiler was starting to be available by the > mid-1980s in alpha/beta form. rms was looking for places to start.  He Right, things were changing, but costly C compilers were a reality well into the 90s, unless your use case happened to coincide with a gcc port. And the reason this matters is that it contradicts the "C is popular because compilers were easy" assertion. Not "easy", and not necessarily cheap or free either. > approached a number of folks, from Tanenbaum to some of the vendors (he > knew Masscomp had written a compiler from scratch which we away the > binaries gave to our customers and he called me asking if we would > donate it.  We had donated development hardware and I was still his > contact to the Gnu project at that point). > > As far as I know, he ended up writing his own because he could not find > one to start with.  ... > > > >   > > but C had been taking off like wildfire for 10 years before that > > At least 15 years before.  By 1975, it was a solid fixture at most > Universities. Yes. I should have said "more than 10" :-) --Toby > >   > > - by the time gcc was mature (by some definition, but probably > before1990) > > Mature is the key word here.   gcc does not really start to mature until >  Cygnus takes it over.  But it was quite usable for the systems that > targetted it.