From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,NICE_REPLY_A,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 10245 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2020 18:01:19 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 30 Jul 2020 18:01:19 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 067759CB52; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 04:01:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57F099CB3C; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 04:00:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 058BF9CB3C; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 04:00:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pl1-f195.google.com (mail-pl1-f195.google.com [209.85.214.195]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FCEE93DFC for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 04:00:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pl1-f195.google.com with SMTP id w19so1871770plq.3 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 11:00:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:reply-to:subject:to:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language; bh=nenKHmSnbOUB9m77P+7Ptt8odCvZfIOSM0V9iNKset4=; b=X2F/wjWz+sjdIhTJmvLsLgXkOkiexURAy8aknGfGyaAlrn+X8NxgYi56jU6WSYqoFt 7cgfzOOSt5eyVrSCNs31+TnQX0BmFMVUN98JzwsYnIfGtSR+s1s6lPI3E1gX2ztDktso yPySKBo/kfkvElKpsI63Qq/XctPUvT1rD39UrYY7eoi5Rgs/ui0j4VYB5BjOtdEeC8q2 hYPXcQ2mghysla1t4YcRMNxdUYpAZU0EzSL5rYoNQe9Fv8wivXYJzshj/VNc0WQCyw3q xhUcM2l3CUM6MAs55mxBjKkwFtuS46Za9AUDsZfl3lwv5oqxjjnWR2J5/gxet5WQghkR b8vg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530kNbdtOOyOOiR3xKbGUDsIPysPP3QOy8oovVUX9Bo37ELDXJMS 8lL46qmXqV9etw8Ly1LZyGFuUwS6 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJznAorkDgfydXs56d0kdlPXzCZP5a2EKo/hUeRgpUVMjMo8WcEdz4QrepgGqBXxFypGSHPFIg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:a119:: with SMTP id b25mr85967pgf.10.1596132023410; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 11:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:601:a000:8c0:19ae:efec:fab1:819e? ([2601:601:a000:8c0:19ae:efec:fab1:819e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b12sm7355487pga.87.2020.07.30.11.00.22 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 30 Jul 2020 11:00:22 -0700 (PDT) To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org References: <20200730134759.3833518C0F6@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> From: Heinz Lycklama Organization: Open Systems Technology Associates Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 11:00:19 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2194B2CF820E9DA2D4035515" Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [TUHS] Will pdp 11/04 run unix? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: heinz@osta.com Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2194B2CF820E9DA2D4035515 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As the author of both LSX and Mini-UNIX, I would suggest that the LSX source code is a better starting point for the 11/04, especially if single-user is the target. Mini-UNIX was written to support a small number of users on the PDP 11/10 without an MMU. However, I'm not current on what sources are still available. Heinz On 7/30/2020 9:13 AM, Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:49 AM Noel Chiappa > wrote: > > - If you get the V1 that ran on an -11/20 (which is mostly > compatible with > the /04 and /05), it should run on an /04. (Not sure what you'd > use for mass > storage, on a physical /04, though.) I'm not sure when they > dropped the /20 - > I think V4 n(at the latest)? But V2 and V3 are lost. > > > Yes, the reconstructed 1st edition may run (though from dates and > such, it's somewhere between 1st and 2nd edition), though I've no > direct experience with 11/04 hardware, nor ideas on how to bootstrap > it onto appropriate physical media... > > I have it in my head that the 4th edition was rewritten for the 11/45 > and removed support for 11/20. I thought I knew why, but could only > find part of the story in the manuals... > > There's a strong note in the 4th edition preface that it applies only > to the 'c' version of Unix and the 3rd edition preface has a > note saying the manual doesn't apply to the 11/20 version and to look > in the 2nd or even 1st edition manuals for that. > > As others have mentioned, Mini-unix and/or LSX might have a shot, but > it might be best characterized as a long shot. > > Warner --------------2194B2CF820E9DA2D4035515 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As the author of both LSX and Mini-UNIX, I would suggest that the
LSX source code is a better starting point for the 11/04, especially
if single-user is the target. Mini-UNIX was written to support a
small number of users on the PDP 11/10 without an MMU.
However, I'm not current on what sources are still available.

Heinz

On 7/30/2020 9:13 AM, Warner Losh wrote:
On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:49 AM Noel Chiappa <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
- If you get the V1 that ran on an -11/20 (which is mostly compatible with
the /04 and /05), it should run on an /04. (Not sure what you'd use for mass
storage, on a physical /04, though.) I'm not sure when they dropped the /20 -
I think V4 n(at the latest)? But V2 and V3 are lost.

Yes, the reconstructed 1st edition may run (though from dates and such, it's somewhere between 1st and 2nd edition), though I've no direct experience with 11/04 hardware, nor ideas on how to bootstrap it onto appropriate physical media...

I have it in my head that the 4th edition was rewritten for the 11/45 and removed support for 11/20. I thought I knew why, but could only find part of the story in the manuals...

There's a strong note in the 4th edition preface that it applies only to the 'c' version of Unix and the 3rd edition preface has a note saying the manual doesn't apply to the 11/20 version and to look in the 2nd or even 1st edition manuals for that.

As others have mentioned, Mini-unix and/or LSX might have a shot, but it might be best characterized as a long shot.

Warner

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