From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, LOTS_OF_MONEY,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,MONEY_NOHTML,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 24769 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2021 16:35:39 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 7 Apr 2021 16:35:39 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 30B0F9CAE1; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 02:35:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4A739C733; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 02:35:04 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=osta.com header.i=@osta.com header.b="uN2XXPDa"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 1B62D9C733; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 02:34:18 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 2171 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Thu, 08 Apr 2021 02:34:17 AEST Received: from bosmailout08.eigbox.net (bosmailout08.eigbox.net [66.96.188.8]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47BC19C723 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 2021 02:34:17 +1000 (AEST) Received: from bosmailscan06.eigbox.net ([10.20.15.6]) by bosmailout08.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1lUAZB-0004LF-Gz for tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 11:58:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=osta.com; s=dkim; h=Sender:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Message-ID: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:MIME-Version:Reply-To: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=qm5yv7HX/2fqKNQvgPhhG5AkFLfGO2qKkNkoEbWl1/4=; b=uN2XXPDaxCLbRPib12+Xf21awr Citau8/Mmojm0e6BqhGPnlNFBwO64qSuUOKXNjGwwWyBcBCmnMb5UNpZzVFhzsRPWeycqzAbuxNw7 ROVdaZPyhY60cA/RdL5ry1iOuh1CqzkRzq5DRfqLxScPcgRFWPoigPwawdwmiI+8weC2gpGg2lpJR 4lM9hBbUnMjuS1naB1TpjF4R6UGekuRdeUf6MDrHp+8O4ov0zm1rLh/ekIygQIfja7d0q26TNZyAp 2JheEBAytfO/yNWswpdHyrNVuubzfhmOioMh1McFz/vpZwxC2uAtuOmJlNod5SOyTcMcl3/vqB/RG XAB2wQkg==; Received: from [10.115.3.33] (helo=bosimpout13) by bosmailscan06.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1lUAZB-00009S-7C for tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 11:58:05 -0400 Received: from boswebmail16.eigbox.net ([10.20.16.16]) by bosimpout13 with id prxx2400F0Lne6201ry4yE; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 11:58:05 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=RNUo47q+ c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=uPHUT7CEn0Da+Qm5h3+6qg==:117 a=CQ13XYz4MScq6VwrKASXUg==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=3YhXtTcJ-WEA:10 a=eCzzlHB6nRnxgPo0o5cA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=ipage) by boswebmail16.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1lUAYa-0005j7-Ed; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 11:57:28 -0400 Received: from c-73-221-26-26.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([73.221.26.26]) by emailmg.ipage.com with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Wed, 07 Apr 2021 11:57:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 08:57:28 -0700 From: heinz@osta.com To: Paul Ruizendaal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: X-Sender: heinz@osta.com User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.14 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-EN-AuthUser: heinz@osta.com Subject: Re: [TUHS] PC Unix X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Yes, that sounds about right. LSX and MX used older versions of UNIX and binary licensing from WE was not yet available. Heinz On 2021-04-07 00:52, Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS wrote: >> I developed LSX at Bell Labs in Murray Hill NJ in the 1974-1975 >> timeframe. >> An existing C compiler made it possible without too much effort. The >> UNIX >> source was available to Universities by then. I also developed >> Mini-UNIX >> for the PDP11/10 (also no memory protection) in the 1976 timeframe. >> This source code was also made available to Universities, but the >> source >> code for LSX was not. >> >> Peter Weiner, the founder of INTERACTIVE Systems Corp.(ISC) in June >> 1977, >> the first commercial company to license UNIX source from Western >> Electric for $20,000. Binary licenses were available at the same time. >> I joined ISC in May of 1978 when ISC was the first company to offer >> UNIX support services to third parties. There was never any talk about >> licensing UNIX source code from Western Electric (WE) from the >> founding >> of ISC to when the Intel 8086 micro became available in 1981. >> DEC never really targeted the PC market with the LSI-11 micro, >> and WE never made it easy to license binary copies of the UNIX >> source code, So LSX never really caught on in the commercial market. >> ISC was in the business of porting the UNIX source code to other >> computers, micro to mainframe, as new computer architectures >> were developed. >> >> Heinz > > The Wikipedia page for ISC has the following paragraphs: > > "Although observers in the early 1980s expected that IBM would choose > Microsoft Xenix or a version from AT&T Corporation as the Unix for its > microcomputer, PC/IX was the first Unix implementation for the IBM PC > XT available directly from IBM. According to Bob Blake, the PC/IX > product manager for IBM, their "primary objective was to make a > credible Unix system - [...] not try to 'IBM-ize' the product. PC-IX > is System III Unix." PC/IX was not, however, the first Unix port to > the XT: Venix/86 preceded PC/IX by about a year, although it was based > on the older Version 7 Unix. > > The main addition to PC/IX was the INed screen editor from ISC. INed > offered multiple windows and context-sensitive help, paragraph > justification and margin changes, although it was not a fully fledged > word processor. PC/IX omitted the System III FORTRAN compiler and the > tar file archiver, and did not add BSD tools like vi or the C shell. > One reason for not porting these was that in PC/IX, individual > applications were limited to a single segment of 64 kB of RAM. > > To achieve good filesystem performance, PC/IX addressed the XT hard > drive directly, rather than doing this through the BIOS, which gave it > a significant speed advantage compared to MS-DOS. Because of the lack > of true memory protection in the 8088 chips, IBM only sold single-user > licenses for PC/IX. > > The PC/IX distribution came on 19 floppy disks and was accompanied by > a 1,800-page manual. Installed, PC/IX took approximately 4.5 MB of > disk space. An editorial by Bill Machrone in PC Magazine at the time > of PC/IX's launch flagged the $900 price as a show stopper given its > lack of compatibility with MS-DOS applications. PC/IX was not a > commercial success although BYTE in August 1984 described it as "a > complete, usable single-user implementation that does what can be done > with the 8088", noting that PC/IX on the PC outperformed Venix on the > PDP-11/23.” > > It seems like Venix/86 came out in Spring 1983 and PC/IX in Spring > 1984. I guess by then RAM had become cheap enough that running in 64KB > of core was no longer a requirement and LSX and MX did not make sense > anymore. Does that sound right?