From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 8744 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2022 18:49:25 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 16 Sep 2022 18:49:25 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 712244172C; Sat, 17 Sep 2022 04:49:01 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuhs.org; s=dkim; t=1663354141; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:list-id:list-help: list-owner:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=01s7PxCIYmFLGJ18rEbL/a0NgGrinwMqewNBwux0mIo=; b=uA1gfZKYl24TfbAPYL3Jl/tBImlKg4FYo1BTfm0LTntxtwSfq1cyqBYf0Kt3CZUeYl8b3b wKZpm35hVFvwbJcY1Y3A8/cxF6N5HWHXLAia+5ZXiM5iyOCWzcPyUClOU4U28KO3FHDyVY 9bTvXts9+gulUxSyz85+eNDqa0J93Gw= Received: from mail-4027.protonmail.ch (mail-4027.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.27]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 433C040E78 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2022 04:48:56 +1000 (AEST) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 18:48:44 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1663354133; x=1663613333; bh=01s7PxCIYmFLGJ18rEbL/a0NgGrinwMqewNBwux0mIo=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date: Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID:Message-ID; b=yP0LhgDfp8ljiTAOmDbKL/fwkscr9tjr0vB6K0EuM+WGSn7flc2Rt8ZDPSsQS6aLl LorTYAyxSisYRU66NNpUkGhNW+MLFET7JYY+IfcXl5JIHbjmMUJ0R0uoJk47Jc7oqY Bb4A2qEj1FRQPoPVTIIfQOq0qvJwV1lPfF3ysadUOezFn1Gz1LcJgm+ZJ9m2axs8Tt 7wrxzG76mihUv+Mcfdwkak//aYK/UU48uWom3XzKeqTCsI72Q8EFu4TAwN/MddKIz2 TuMGshOQ9WM4zCAiWjMIDRczVJ2scWlyfL/qZuW96lac0JSDhxdNkgxUsRly6Qv9yD +cfxbV15CuMfA== To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Message-ID: Feedback-ID: 35591162:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: 3LLKFOBXIUSR4U3GU3I53IIQ5MC2KJ3Z X-Message-ID-Hash: 3LLKFOBXIUSR4U3GU3I53IIQ5MC2KJ3Z X-MailFrom: segaloco@protonmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Release 5.0 Vs. System V List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: segaloco via TUHS Reply-To: segaloco Good morning all, currently trying to sort out one matter that still bewild= ers me with this documentation I'm working on scanning. So I've got two copies of the "Release 5.0" User's Manual and one copy of t= he "System V" User's Manual. I haven't identified the exact differences, l= ots of pages...but they certainly are not identical, there are at least a f= ew commands in one and not the other. Given this, and past discussion, it's obvious Release 5.0 is the internal U= NIX version that became System V, but what I'm curious about is if it was e= ver released publicly as "Release 5.0" before being branded as System V or = if the name was System V from the moment the first commercial license was i= ssued. The reason I wonder this is some inconsistencies in the documentation I see= out there. So both of my Release 5.0 User's Manuals have the Bell logo on= the front and no mention of the court order to cease using it. Likewise, = all but one of the System V related documents I received recently contain a= Bell logo on the cover next to Western Electric save for the Opeartor's Gu= ide which curiously doesn't exhibit the front page divestiture message that= other documents missing the Bell logo include. Furthermore, the actual co= ver sheet says "Operator's Guide UNIX System Release 5.0" so technically no= t System V. In fact, only the User's Manual, Administrator's Manual, Error = Message Manual, Transition Aids, and Release Description specifically say S= ystem V, all the rest don't have a version listed but some list Release 5.0= on their title page. Furthering that discrepancy is this which I just purchased: https://www.eba= y.com/itm/314135813726?_trkparms=3Damclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DR= EC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D242152%26meid%3Dd1b5923533b045acae4f14b9dd8b4e57%2= 6pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D14%26sd%3D284965858677%26itm%3D314135813726%= 26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=3Dp2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkpar= ms=3Dpageci%3A8d64fbe5-35ed-11ed-8efb-b6aa9c31d728|parentrq%3A47906e531830a= 0adef7482b3fffe1682|iid%3A1 Link lives as of this sending, but contains a closed auction for an Error M= essage Manual from the "Release 5.0" documentation line but no Bell logo. = Until the Operator's Guide and this auction link, I haven't seen any "Relea= se 5.0" branded stuff without a Bell logo, and before I bought the System V= gold set, I hadn't seen System V branded stuff *with* the Bell logo. This shatters an assumption that I had made that at the same time the docum= entation branding shifted to System V was the same time the removal of the = Bell logo happened, given that divestiture was what allowed them to aggress= ively market System V, but now this presents four distinct sets of System V= gold documentation: Release 5.0 w/ Bell logo Release 5.0 w/o Bell logo System V w/ Bell logo System V w/o Bell logo I'm curious if anyone would happen to know what the significance here is. = The covers are all printed, I can't see any indication that a bunch of 5.0 = manuals were retroactively painted over nor that any System V manuals got s= tamped with a Bell post-production. What this means is "Release 5.0" docum= entation was being shipped post-divestiture and "System V" was being shippe= d pre-divestiture. If Release 5.0 was publicly sold as System V, then what= explains the post-divestiture 5.0 manuals floating around in the wild, and= vice versa, if USG couldn't effectively market and support UNIX until the = divestiture, how is it so many "Release 5.0" documents are floating around = in well produced commercial-quality binding, both pre and post-divestiture = by the time the name "System V" would've been king. Were they still mainta= ining an internal 5.x branch past System V that warranted its own distinct = documentation set even into the commercial period? This period right aroun= d '82-'83 is incredibly fascinating and I feel very under-documented. - Matt G.