From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25388 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2022 18:54:19 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 Dec 2022 18:54:19 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 410F441BBF; Tue, 20 Dec 2022 04:54:06 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuhs.org; s=dkim; t=1671476046; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-owner:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=w1+OvrvR0xQMvKgdqe4xUVXg+PVb29iLs/GQoblrmW4=; b=j/epuy0I/uznsfkQHXWv8UkT6Y9BlOiJRF/qVe6I1BvR3ht9RSh2NSIG+x+uLe56a16xWD xHDcNpzLeEW7nmVRoB7feCS9g3Cd5SREBpkqGSvzJ0BXUtDPfT3tmxdbBaTfqBHlsvmqYu WLa+X/D6Nbqp4QbUA95iVs16KVS90gw= Received: from mail-4027.protonmail.ch (mail-4027.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.27]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 083E141BBC for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2022 04:53:58 +1000 (AEST) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 18:53:48 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1671476035; x=1671735235; bh=w1+OvrvR0xQMvKgdqe4xUVXg+PVb29iLs/GQoblrmW4=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=F+ezri14Geem2lES0MUjRbzbRW1Px1tv85k5cZ00JKGhdQPYY482HfvL5xdw2wJir 5FVWFVSKzcr6qPI/Q6BKV8borRzdnggR07w1mqSsOo89SfpXHSoxwrCyuy9gbdXh+v kqMGix6Whyd3t+3AWMj/7cPDnU/DfTIWQgc/rbZOUCtDg3ep5HBlZCG5W293ADzXfP XFwlJywmxBFALVCaRGIbWCqTUxH9b7TWLvpAJmP+UFeP+FV72ornOOAkdT3A3OXveN P6WMLp2SOQr85e0HnxN1a+kKlUwk9BGmyNvgazRykWzlH3x9X957762Wotxbz5A0/4 scOLlxFy0/XTA== To: Phil Budne Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <202212191738.2BJHcLBF024793@ultimate.com> References: <202212191738.2BJHcLBF024793@ultimate.com> Feedback-ID: 35591162:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: 2HIK3QUHCHFBUI7AT77JFP3PKPR2TJZT X-Message-ID-Hash: 2HIK3QUHCHFBUI7AT77JFP3PKPR2TJZT X-MailFrom: segaloco@protonmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: UNIX on (not quite bare) System/370 List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: segaloco via TUHS Reply-To: segaloco All I can comment is there are a number of #ifdef u370 sections added to Sy= stem V. Happened somewhere between 3.0 and 5.0, likely UNIX/TS. This is m= y understanding of Bell-adjacent platform work: PDP-7 - Research, 1969 PDP-11 - Research, 1970 Interdata 8/32 - Research, 1977 VAX - Research, 1979 (or did USG do 32V, it's sitting in my USG = folder...) 3B20 - UNIX/TS 4.x, 1981 System/370 - UNIX/TS?, 198x 3B5 - Release 5.0, 1982 M68000 - System V, 1983 Z8000 - System V, 1983 And sources are obvious for PDP-7, PDP-11, Interdata, and VAX. 3B20 I based= on the 4.1 manual, unsure if it was integrated any earlier. M68000 and Z80= 00 are based on entries in the AT&T documentation catalogue from 1984, amon= g other things, they mention System V documentation for M680000 and Z8000. = The machid man page in System V lists pdp11, u3b, u3b5, and vax. The 370 = references I'm aware of are all in code. I can try and pinpoint that if an= yone wants me to look, a grep for u370 should suffice though. In any case,= machid in my 5.0 manual does not list M68000, Z8000, nor System/370. Also ran upstairs and checked some of my other manuals, I find no reference= of machid in the SVR2 era manual I have, but it isn't a formal release-ver= sion manual, it's "The UNIX System User's Manual" with the red AT&T cover t= hat was the motif at the time. It seems to be a much more general manual, = meant to encompass multiple versions and just the basics. It's actually pr= etty interesting in typography and layout, I'll see if that thing has been = scanned yet, and if not, will add it to my list. Checking the actual System V branded manual, it removes the 3b5 reference, = perhaps 3b5 was still pretty internal at the time. The 3b5 reference *is* = in the Bell Labs Release 5.0 manual variant, so appears to have just been s= crubbed from commercial release material. Fast forwarding to SVR4, that adds u3b2, u3b15, and u370, so System/370 UNI= X was formalized and promoted somewhere between SVR1 and SVR4, pointing mor= e strongly to it being the work of USG and the UNIX/TS line. That's my ini= tial analysis, I feel like I saw mention of 370 in some sort of papers from= around this timeframe, so will respond if I find anything else. Unfortuna= tely I have a gaping SVR2/SVR3 hole in my library that I don't intend to fi= ll until I work my scan backlog down. - Matt G. ------- Original Message ------- On Monday, December 19th, 2022 at 9:38 AM, Phil Budne w= rote: > The October 1984 BSTJ article by Felton, Miller and Milner > https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/otherports/ibm.pdf >=20 > Describes an AT&T port of UNIX to System/370 using TSS/370 > underpinnings as the "Resident System Supervisor" and used as the 5ESS > switching system development environment. >=20 > I also found mention at http://www.columbia.edu/~rh120/ch106.x09 > chapter 9 of http://www.columbia.edu/~rh120/ with footnote 96: >=20 > Ian Johnstone, who had been the tutor at University of New > South Wales working with Professor John Lions, was one of the > researchers invited to Bell Labs. He managed the completion at > AT&T Bell Labs of the port of Unix to the IBM 370 computer. See > "Unix on Big Iron" by Ian Johnstone and Steve Rosenthal, UNIX > Review, October, 1984, p. 26. Johnstone also led the group that did > the port to the AT&T 2B20A multiprocessor system. >=20 > I found > https://ia902801.us.archive.org/3/items/Unix_Review_1984_Oct.pdf/Unix_Rev= iew_1984_Oct.pdf > "BIG UNIX: The Whys and Wherefores" (pdf p.24), which only offers rationa= le. >=20 > Also: >=20 > "IBM's own involvement in Unix can be dated to 1979, when it > assisted Bell Labs in doing its own Unix port to the 370 (to > be used as a build host for the 5ESS switch's software). In > the process, IBM made modifications to the TSS/370 hypervisor > to better support Unix.[12]" > at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_AIX#cite_ref-att-s370-unix_12-0 >=20 > Is there any other surviving documentation about the system? > Any recall of what branch of AT&T UNIX it was based on? >=20 > Thanks! > Phil