* UNIX for 11/23
@ 1996-03-20 10:16 Bob Manners
0 siblings, 0 replies; only message in thread
From: Bob Manners @ 1996-03-20 10:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
Having met with storming success (thanks Warren) in getting UNIX v6
and v7 up and running on my 11/34, and having recently (well
yesterday) acquired an 11/23+, I'd like to put UNIX on the latter.
Now, the 11/23 has 128Kw, a 10Mb RD51 winchester and an RX50 floppy. I
need to get hold of a version of UNIX (pref. v7) The UNIX in question
obviously needs to support the RD51.
In the case of the 11/34 I built a UNIX image under a PDP-11 emulator
and KERMITed it to the 11/34. I plan to do the same in this case ...
Any suggestions welcome. Does v7 support RD series drives? If not,
what does?
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
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From: wkt@dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
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Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23
To: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:23:49 +1000 (EST)
Cc: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <m0tzKw7-00000DC at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk> from "Bob Manners" at Mar 20, 96 10:16:10 am
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In atricle by Bob Manners:
>
> Now, the 11/23 has 128Kw, a 10Mb RD51 winchester and an RX50 floppy. I
> need to get hold of a version of UNIX (pref. v7) The UNIX in question
> obviously needs to support the RD51.
>
> Does v7 support RD series drives? If not, what does?
v7 doesn't support RDs (just looked thru the archive), and I don't know
of anything that does. You'd probably have to write your own device driver :-(
Warren
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 14:39:32 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-Id: <199603202239.OAA28894 at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
To: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk, wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23
Cc: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Hi -
> From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
> In article by Bob Manners:
> >
> > Does v7 support RD series drives? If not, what does?
>
> v7 doesn't support RDs (just looked thru the archive), and I don't know
> of anything that does. You'd probably have to write your own device driver :-(
> Warren
Warren's correct. MSCP support did not enter the 'BSD' picture until
late 2.9BSD or early 2.10BSD. TMSCP support for tapes didn't come
about until early 2.11BSD when I "borrowed" the driver from 4.3BSD
(who had earlier borrowed it from Ultrix).
It should be noted that the MSCP (and to a greater degree TMSCP)
is a *pig* - it's the largest driver in the system, rivaling the
TTY subsystem sizewise.
An 11/23 is already extremely cramped for address space even using
simpler/smaller drivers such as the RK, RL, etc. I seriously doubt
the MSCP driver could be smashed in to a 11/23 kernel and leave room
for too much else.
Steven Schultz
sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com
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From: rjm@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23 (fwd)
To: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (OldUnix MailingList)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:44:37 +0000 (GMT)
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Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:40:12 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <9603202323.AA23006 at dolphin> from "Warren Toomey" at Mar 21, 96 09:23:49 am
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>
>In atricle by Bob Manners:
>>
>> Now, the 11/23 has 128Kw, a 10Mb RD51 winchester and an RX50 floppy. I
>> need to get hold of a version of UNIX (pref. v7) The UNIX in question
>> obviously needs to support the RD51.
>>
>> Does v7 support RD series drives? If not, what does?
>
>v7 doesn't support RDs (just looked thru the archive), and I don't know
>of anything that does. You'd probably have to write your own device driver :-(
I beleive Digital's MV7 (I think) does support RDs. It is mentioned in
the 11/23+ Owners Manual. I'll have to check. I guess this version
isn't in the archive ...
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
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From: rjm@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23 (fwd)
To: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (OldUnix MailingList)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:44:25 +0000 (GMT)
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Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23
To: sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 09:43:47 +0000 (GMT)
In-Reply-To: <199603202239.OAA28894 at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at Mar 20, 96 02:39:32 pm
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What about Digital's MV7 (or whatever it was called). This is
mentioned in the 11/23+ owners' manual as supported. Thus it must run
on the 11/23+ and support RD series disks. It is basically Bell Labs
version 7 I think.
> Warren's correct. MSCP support did not enter the 'BSD' picture until
> late 2.9BSD or early 2.10BSD. TMSCP support for tapes didn't come
> about until early 2.11BSD when I "borrowed" the driver from 4.3BSD
> (who had earlier borrowed it from Ultrix).
OK. I guess 2.x BSD (x>=9) requires separate I+D space? That would
rule out the 11/23+ I think.
> It should be noted that the MSCP (and to a greater degree TMSCP)
> is a *pig* - it's the largest driver in the system, rivaling the
> TTY subsystem sizewise.
Yes. I can believe that. Looks like writing my own driver would be no
fun at all!
> An 11/23 is already extremely cramped for address space even using
> simpler/smaller drivers such as the RK, RL, etc. I seriously doubt
> the MSCP driver could be smashed in to a 11/23 kernel and leave room
> for too much else.
The 11/23+ has plenty of address space (22 bit), but mine only has 128Kw ...
Cheers,
Bob.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk Dept of Engineering Science
University of Oxford
01865 288762
Computer Museum: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk/rjm/museum.html
Also: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
"The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 08:31:20 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-Id: <199603211631.IAA19050 at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
To: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk
Subject: Re: UNIX for 11/23 (fwd)
Robert -
> I beleive Digital's MV7 (I think) does support RDs. It is mentioned in
> the 11/23+ Owners Manual. I'll have to check. I guess this version
> isn't in the archive ...
True - Ultrix-11 (what MV7 was called later on) does have MSCP
support in it. I've not looked at how they handle the rather
prodigious data space requirements (~2kb per controller) yet.
Cheers.
Steven
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Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 20:41:26 -0700
To: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
From: pwargo@basenji.com (Peter L. Wargo)
Subject: 11/73 and UNIX?
The recent 11/23 discussion got me wondering if anybody has seen an 11/73
running UNIX - I've got one with 3M RAM, and an RD52(?) (32M winchester...)
-Pete, who has changed his address to pwargo at basenji.com (my own domain!)
-Pete "I *still* want a vacation", Chandra "I love it here", Keegan "SUN!"
and Spritzer "Let's go for *another* walk!"
Rio Rancho, New Mexico, USA
pwargo at basenji.com (a free system)
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From: Robin Birch <robin@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Message-Id: <199604071430.PAA00403 at falstaf.demon.co.uk>
To: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, pwargo at basenji.com
Subject: Re: 11/73 and UNIX?
Got one at home. It has only got 1.5MByte but in soldiers on. You will need
more than an RD52, a 53 as a bare min and a 54 as ideal. I use 2*54s
RObin
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To: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, pwargo at basenji.com,
robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: 11/73 and UNIX?
> From: Robin Birch <robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk>
>
> Got one at home. It has only got 1.5MByte but in soldiers on. You will need
> more than an RD52, a 53 as a bare min and a 54 as ideal. I use 2*54s
Got two. A HP3724S 1.2GB SCSI drive works just fine <grin>
Steven Schultz
sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com
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From: wkt@dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Message-Id: <9606220644.AA06253 at dolphin>
Subject: Re: v6 tapes
To: jritorto at sparcy.geneva.edu (Jacob Ritorto)
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 16:44:19 +1000 (EST)
Cc: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960621142754.6541A-100000 at sparcy.geneva.edu> from "Jacob Ritorto" at Jun 21, 96 02:40:53 pm
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In atricle by Jacob Ritorto:
> Warren,
> I have three 600' 9-track 800bpi tapes marked (in pen) UNIX V6
> 4000 blocks. One Source, one Object, one Documentation. I've tried
> using ROLLIN to restore them, but it expects a filename, which I can't
> find. I did do an RT11 dump of the first few blocks of the tapes, which
> revealed an ascii 'd' as the first byte, then a series of decending
> bytes. It didn't look like a file structure or a filename. All the
> tapes had the same first block. I tried to boot the tapes directly on an
> 11/34. No luck. I tried to DIR them from rt11, but, of course, rt
> couldn't find any directory info. There's definately unix stuff on the
> tapes--I saw it in the RT11 device dump. Dates in some of the source
> files are around 1974 or 1976, if I recall correctly.
> What do I need to do to get these tapes back onto disk and
> running? I'm assuming they restore to RK05 disks because the labels say
> 4000 blocks. I have 4 rk05 drives and lots of packs. BTW, the tape
> drive I'm using is a TU10 with standard address and vector.
> Your help would be greatly appreciated.
> Jacob Ritorto
Jacob, I'm passing this onto a bunch of PDP Unix people, as I don't have
the hardware & RT11 experience to tell you how to install v6 from the
tapes. Yes, the 3 tapes are RK05 pack images, I have on-line copies here
if that can be of any help to you. Can you raw dump the tapes to RK05s
using RT11?
Can anybody help Jacob out here? We also have v7, 2.9BSD and 2.11BSD here.
What hardware do you have?
Best of luck,
Warren Toomey
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From: wkt@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
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Subject: Good News re PDP Unix Licensing
To: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 12:06:47 +1000 (EST)
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All,
I just received a very pleasing letter from Dion L. Johnson II, the
Product Manager at SCO, about the legal status of the PDP UNIXs. I've included
his email and my response below. If I can get a legally authorative statement
on paper from SCO, I'll pass it on to you all, especially Steven Schultz.
Cheers,
Warren
In atricle by Dion:
>
> SCO owns the licensing rights all versions of the UNIX system, or
> so our legal folks tell me. Now, of course there are many
> derivative, licensed versions, and some of the holders of those
> licenses have rights to sublicense. In the case of BSD
> enhancements, the Berkeley additions are owned by the Regents of
> the University of California, and I believe the UCB license terms
> are well known.
>
> As for your friends who have rescued ancient PDP machines... I
> am confident that SCO would cheerfully encourage them to run UNIX
> on these antiques without any payment to us. I cant quite
> officially give that permission myself, but I can speculate that
> SCO certainly would not mind.
>
> So go for it. Does this help?
> -Dion
>Dion L. Johnson II - The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc. dionj at sco.com
>SCO Product Manager - Development Systems and Various Other Stuff
>400 Encinal St. Santa Cruz, CA 95061 FAX: 408-427-5417 Voice: 408-427-7565
Dion, thanks very much for your email, in fact I'm ecstatic! I know this
could be a tricky legal minefield, so if possible could SCO draft a letter
(and run it past their lawyers) which sets out exactly what you said above.
In particular, you said that ``SCO would cheerfully encourage them to run UNIX
on these antiques without any payment to us''. Does this mean I can legally
distribute the source code to the PDP versions of UNIX, and to anybody? or
just to people who own PDP-11s. There are PDP-11 emulators available, so
it is conceivable that people who don't even have a real PDP-11 might like
to try UNIX out on these emulators. If to anybody, then I assume this means
the source is legally owned by SCO but freely distributable?
I really appreciate your offer of making these old versions of UNIX
available, but given the legal status of the code to this point, I would
like to cover myself with an officially blessed and signed document from SCO.
Let me know what you can do, and many many thanks again for this!
Cheers,
Warren
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 96 11:02:02 +0200
From: Johnny.Billquist@emw.ericsson.se (Johnny Billquist konsult)
Message-Id: <9606270902.AA03902 at genesis.mo.emw.ericsson.se>
To: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Good News re PDP Unix Licensing
> All,
> I just received a very pleasing letter from Dion L. Johnson II, the
> Product Manager at SCO, about the legal status of the PDP UNIXs. I've included
> his email and my response below. If I can get a legally authorative statement
> on paper from SCO, I'll pass it on to you all, especially Steven Schultz.
Not that I wan't to sound pessimistic, but there are several
miles between "would not mind", and "legally allowed".
From what I read into his letter, he's saying that he don't think
SCO would take legal actions against us, but at the same time they
won't probably make it officially legal.
And your reply, hoping that they'll say that "Unix is legally owned by
SCO, but freely distributable", is really reaching for the sky... :-)
Anyway, keep trying, it would be very nice if they really did write
such a paper.
Johnny
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From: wkt@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Message-Id: <9606272307.AA06842 at dolphin>
Subject: Re: Good News re PDP Unix Licensing
To: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:07:07 +1000 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <9606270902.AA03902 at genesis.mo.emw.ericsson.se> from "Johnny Billquist konsult" at Jun 27, 96 11:02:02 am
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In atricle by Johnny Billquist konsult:
>
> > I just received a very pleasing letter from Dion L. Johnson II, the
> > Product Manager at SCO, about the legal status of the PDP UNIXs.
>
> Not that I wan't to sound pessimistic, but there are several
> miles between "would not mind", and "legally allowed".
> From what I read into his letter, he's saying that he don't think
> SCO would take legal actions against us, but at the same time they
> won't probably make it officially legal.
> And your reply, hoping that they'll say that "Unix is legally owned by
> SCO, but freely distributable", is really reaching for the sky... :-)
I know, but I really don't want to try to work under a `head in the sand'
approach from SCO. At the very least I'd like official blessing to pass
on old UNIXes to people who need/want them. I know getting SCO to allow
them to be freely redistributable is a pipe dream, but perhaps there's
some middle ground they would be willing to move to.
I'll keep you all informed of any progress with SCO.
Cheers,
Warren
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 09:05:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-Id: <199606271605.JAA10306 at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
To: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Good News re PDP Unix Licensing
Warren, et al -
> I just received a very pleasing letter from Dion L. Johnson II, the
> Product Manager at SCO, about the legal status of the PDP UNIXs. I've included
> his email and my response below. If I can get a legally authorative statement
> on paper from SCO, I'll pass it on to you all, especially Steven Schultz.
> Warren
Wow. I never even dreamed that such a thing would happen - how times
(or people) have changed over time. Very welcome news indeed!
> In particular, you said that ``SCO would cheerfully encourage them to run UNIX
> on these antiques without any payment to us''. Does this mean I can legally
> distribute the source code to the PDP versions of UNIX, and to anybody? or
> just to people who own PDP-11s. There are PDP-11 emulators available, so
> it is conceivable that people who don't even have a real PDP-11 might like
> to try UNIX out on these emulators. If to anybody, then I assume this means
> the source is legally owned by SCO but freely distributable?
I submit that running an emulator does not demonstrate the proper
degree of obsession or investment (financial as well as emotional) with
``antiques''. No investment in actual old hardware is involved when
running an emulator. That is, I believe, what SCO is referring
to when mention is made of ``run UNIX on these antiques''. Not a new
fangled Pentium Pro running an emulator but an honest to DEC PDP-11
and all the dealing with 9-track (or TK-25, etc) peripherals and
front panel or console ODT banging which that entails.
Basically I think it would be a 'good thing' to honor the "spirit" of
Dion's mail item as well as the "letter" of it.
Ummm - not freely redistributable but distributable to those who can
at least make some sort of case that they do own a PDP-11 capable of
running UNIX. Granted, "proving" this over the net might be difficult
but the effort should at least, I think, be made in an attempt to
reciprocate SCO's spirit.
Steven Schultz
sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com, sms at moe.2bsd.com
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Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 11:48:08 +0000 (GMT)
From: Tom I Helbekkmo <tih@Hamartun.Priv.NO>
To: Warren Toomey <wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au>
cc: PDP Unix Preservation <oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Good News re PDP Unix Licensing
In-Reply-To: <9606272307.AA06842 at dolphin>
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On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Warren Toomey wrote:
> I know, but I really don't want to try to work under a `head in the sand'
> approach from SCO. At the very least I'd like official blessing to pass
> on old UNIXes to people who need/want them. I know getting SCO to allow
> them to be freely redistributable is a pipe dream, but perhaps there's
> some middle ground they would be willing to move to.
Is there really any good reason for them to object to the distribution
of UNIXes prior to SVR1? Could there possibly be anything at all in
V7 and earlier that could in any way be damaging to SCO (or anyone
else who might buy UNIX from SCO) if it were freely distributed? If
I'm right in assuming that it couldn't possibly make a difference to
their bottom line, perhaps SCO could be convinced to formally release
these oldest versions of UNIX?
Does anyone know, by the way, what's happening with the Lions
commentaries? They're at the top of my "stuff I want to read" list,
and have been for quite some time now!
-tih
--
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO
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From: wkt@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Message-Id: <9606302314.AA19468 at dolphin>
Subject: Re: Good News re PDP Unix Licensing
To: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 09:14:49 +3400 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <960629113832.6626A at barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO> from "Tom I Helbekkmo" at Jun 29, 96 11:48:08 am
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In atricle by Tom I Helbekkmo:
> On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Warren Toomey wrote:
>
> Is there really any good reason for them to object to the distribution
> of UNIXes prior to SVR1? Could there possibly be anything at all in
> V7 and earlier that could in any way be damaging to SCO (or anyone
> else who might buy UNIX from SCO) if it were freely distributed? If
> I'm right in assuming that it couldn't possibly make a difference to
> their bottom line, perhaps SCO could be convinced to formally release
> these oldest versions of UNIX?
I suggested to Dion that SCO would get kudos from the Unix community if
they did. Haven't heard back from him yet (still Sunday there).
> Does anyone know, by the way, what's happening with the Lions
> commentaries? They're at the top of my "stuff I want to read" list,
> and have been for quite some time now!
I have a copy of the PostScript version which floated around the 'net
a few years back. I'd be prepared to give it out on the solemn promise
that people buy Lions' commentaries when they are published.
I'll let you all know how I go with SCO.
Cheers,
Warren
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From: wkt@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Message-Id: <9607020144.AA28826 at dolphin>
Subject: Boston Museum RK Format?
To: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 11:44:42 +1000 (EST)
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Hi all,
I've just been looking thru the old tapes I have here from v6 Unix,
and I think I've got two RK disk images which were laid out with the RK
driver from the Boston Children's Museum. An old email from Kevin Hill
says that the inodes are in the middle of the pack, rather than at the
beginning. However, I don't know enough about the scheme to try and
decode the files from the disk image.
If anybody can help me out, could they email me back. I've got a
program called `grab' that can extract files from v6 images, and I'd
like to modify it to get the files from these `museum' disk images.
Re: the stuff from SCO, Dion at SCO is talking to the legal guys, but
I haven't heard anything as yet.
Thanks in advance!
Warren
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From: wkt@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Message-Id: <9607020458.AA00378 at dolphin>
Subject: Got Museum RK Format
To: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 14:58:28 +1000 (EST)
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All,
I browsed thru the blocks on my `Museum Format' v6 disk image,
and after a bit of work found a nice comment from the writers of the
code:
/*
* Optimized RK-11/RK03/RK05/disk driver
*
* Copyright (c) 1975, the Children's Museum.
*
* [...] In this
* format, block 0 is in its standard place so that
* boot programs can be put there; blocks 1 through
* NHRKBLK (2435) are located beginning at block #2436,
* all remaining blocks are between block 1 & 2435. the
* effect of this mapping is to centralize disk head motion
* about the center of the disk.
* the optimization is ideal for those RK's
* which serve as both root device and swap device. It
* is less than ideal, although probably still an
* improvement over traditional form, for RK's used
* exclusively as mounted file systems.
So, after a bit of dd(1)ing, I had my two Museum Format v6 disk images
into a form which could be read with a normal v6 system.
Cheers,
Warren
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From: wkt@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Message-Id: <9607290451.AA03815 at dolphin>
Subject: Lions Book: Details from Peter Salus
To: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 14:51:38 +1000 (EST)
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All,
Just got this information about the Lions commentary on v6 from
Peter Salus:
The ISBN for the Lions is (will be?) 1-57398-013-7. It will
be $29.95 US. The distributor is International Thompson;
the publisher is Peer-to-Peer Communications.
Cheers,
Warren
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From: wkt@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Message-Id: <9608112317.AA18782 at dolphin>
Subject: PDP UNIX Licenses: Status Report
To: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 09:17:42 +1000 (EST)
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All,
In my continuing quest to find out if PDP-11 UNIX licenses are
available and how to get them, I've been chatting with Mike Tilson, a VP at
SCO. I include his email below, with permission. The summary is that SCO
don't have any licenses for PDP-11 UNIX; if you want a license, you should
join an organisation with an existing UNIX source license so as to be
covered by it.
Cheers,
Warren
From: Michael Tilson <mike at sco.COM>
Subject: Re: PDP-11 Unix Licenses?
[The question posed to Mike was: could cheap PDP UNIX licenses be make
available to people who don't have licenses?]
As a former PDP-11 UNIX Fifth Edition user and systems programmer I'd
personally be pleased to see this happen. There are some obstacles.
The UNIX intellectual property has great value (SCO gave up nearly 20%
of its equity plus future cash payments to obtain it.) The
intellectual property traces back in unbroken lineage to PDP-11 UNIX.
Source licensing has always been very carefully managed, as this deals
with the core of the intellectual property. Even when source was
licensed to universities "for free" there was a large agreement signed
by a university corporate authority, and the agreement had teeth in it.
The Lions book was something we all wanted to see published, but it
still took considerable careful legal review, and that was just to
publish the kernel plus a limited set of device drivers. The full
source code (utilities, libraries, compilers, etc.) would be a bigger
matter. (Example: I believe the algorithms in the "diff" command for
optimal differencing are still unequaled in other commercial systems,
despite their age.) And the later the version (e.g. Seventh Edition
rather than Sixth Edition) the more concerned we would be.
When Dion Johnson raised this matter internally a while back I
commented that I'd like to see it happen, but that I understood all of
the above concerns. I wondered at that time whether the task of
resurrecting this historical item wasn't something that could be done
in cooperation with universities who already possessed the appropriate
source licenses. Would that method work for you? I note that you
appear to be associated with the right sort of institution.
So in summary I'd like to see this happen, I'll be helpful if I can,
and I would caution that the probability is considerably lower than for
the Lions book. Dion has been doing a good job of representing your
interests, by the way.
It sounds like all the interested parties are today associated with
institutions that would allow them the necessary access for this
history project. I've sometimes thought that I'd like to have a
PDP-11/45 running the old UNIX myself. (The hardware can no doubt be
found in some scrapyard, the trick is floorspace and power of course.
Seems like a lot of effort to get a computer with two orders of
magnitude less capacity than my laptop computer... :-))
Please make sure everyone understands that in principle we'd like to be
helpful, but we're not dealing with a dead product, we're dealing with
an earlier version of what is today a very much alive and growing
product -- an intellectual asset of extremely high value. This means
everyone moves very cautiously, as intellectual property law can be a
minefield. There is no doubt that a license with enough teeth could be
written, and if we had such a license the purpose would not be to
charge historians or hobbiests a lot of money. The real obstacle is
the care and effort that must go into creating a licensing program, and
I think the business reality is that we're unlikely to have enough idle
cycles available to create the program for you. (Not my department,
though -- maybe Dion will be able to push it through, who knows?)
// Michael Tilson, CIO
// SCO, +1-408-429-4889
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From: wkt@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Message-Id: <9608120357.AA22166 at dolphin>
Subject: PDP Unix - how to load?
To: oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 13:57:30 +1000 (EST)
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I'm forwarding this on from Keith Huff, who wants to know how to load the
PDP UNIX images from henry onto a machine. As I've never used a PDP OS
apart from Unix, can someone pass on trick and techniques to get tape or
disk images from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au onto a PDP-11?
Thanks,
Warren
----- Forwarded message from kshuff at fast.net -----
From: kshuff at fast.net
Subject: PDP Unix
Hi Warren,
I have visited your FTP site and have a question. The only piece of
equipment I have connected to the net is a PC, so upon downloading a copy of
Unix, how do I go about getting it over to the PDP, or do I have to have it
connected to the net. If the latter, could you give me some guidance on how
this would be accomplished. Thanks again.
-Keith S. Huff
----- End of forwarded message from kshuff at fast.net -----
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:38:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus@crl.com>
To: Warren Toomey <wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Cc: PDP Unix Preservation <oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP Unix - how to load?
In-Reply-To: <9608120357.AA22166 at dolphin>
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On Mon, 12 Aug 1996, Warren Toomey wrote:
> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 13:57:30 +1000 (EST)
> From: Warren Toomey <wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au>
> To: PDP Unix Preservation <oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
> Subject: PDP Unix - how to load?
>
> I'm forwarding this on from Keith Huff, who wants to know how to load the
> PDP UNIX images from henry onto a machine. As I've never used a PDP OS
> apart from Unix, can someone pass on trick and techniques to get tape or
> disk images from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au onto a PDP-11?
>
> Thanks,
> Warren
> ----- Forwarded message from kshuff at fast.net -----
> From: kshuff at fast.net
> Subject: PDP Unix
> Hi Warren,
>
> I have visited your FTP site and have a question. The only piece of
> equipment I have connected to the net is a PC, so upon downloading a copy of
> Unix, how do I go about getting it over to the PDP, or do I have to have it
> connected to the net. If the latter, could you give me some guidance on how
> this would be accomplished. Thanks again.
>
> -Keith S. Huff
> ----- End of forwarded message from kshuff at fast.net -----
>
Keith, Warren, et al.....
1.Sorry that I've been away from this SIG after such a hectic beginning
last winter. I got sucked up in the Olympics here in Atlanta and am only
now returning to "normal" life. You boys down under might invest in a
good pair of hip boots- its coming your way ;-)
2.Thanks to all of you for your help in getting me up and running.
3.If Keith has not yet found a way to transfer files I have a set of
PD tape utilities which work quite well. As I recall I installed
TSXTCP (from shop.pdp.kent.edu) and FTP'd the files from my PC to my
11/73, built the tapes with the aforementioned utilities (TK-50, but
I believe most any style will do), booted up and installed everything
in about three days.
I'm sure that I posted a pointer to the ftp site for the tape utils
on this sig, or maybe e-mailed them to someone who requested. I'm
still not home much but drop me a line and I'll dig out the notes,
names, and etc., in the next few days...
cheers!
*************************************************************************
* A Personal Message from * BASILISK *
* Danny R. Brown * "Try our other fine flavors!" *
* ( sysyphus at crl.com ) * (404) 392-1691 *
* Pager:(404)397-0516 * LYNC host mode *
*************************************************************************
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From: wkt@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Message-Id: <199608230354.NAA00635 at sealion.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP Unix - how to load?
To: sysyphus at crl.com (Danny R. Brown)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 13:54:15 +1000 (EST)
Cc: wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au, oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960822202356.12906A-100000 at crl14.crl.com> from "Danny R. Brown" at Aug 22, 96 08:38:27 pm
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In atricle by Danny R. Brown:
> 3.If Keith has not yet found a way to transfer files I have a set of
> PD tape utilities which work quite well. As I recall I installed
> TSXTCP (from shop.pdp.kent.edu) and FTP'd the files from my PC to my
> 11/73, built the tapes with the aforementioned utilities (TK-50, but
> I believe most any style will do), booted up and installed everything
> in about three days.
>
> I'm sure that I posted a pointer to the ftp site for the tape utils
> on this sig, or maybe e-mailed them to someone who requested. I'm
> still not home much but drop me a line and I'll dig out the notes,
> names, and etc., in the next few days...
> cheers!
Danny, I just looked thru the archive and, no, you didn't post any
detais. So, would you drop a line with the info when you get back.
Thanks again!
Warren
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