From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 14747 invoked from network); 22 May 2020 23:51:00 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 22 May 2020 23:51:00 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 1F9CB9C91D; Sat, 23 May 2020 09:50:58 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C11B69C606; Sat, 23 May 2020 09:50:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 87FD39C606; Sat, 23 May 2020 09:50:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: from central.weird.com (unknown [198.96.117.51]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9152B9C187 for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 09:50:35 +1000 (AEST) Received: from (invalid client hostname: bind: DNS error: DNS lookup for A for 'more.local': Unknown host)more.local ((no PTR matching greeting name)S01060026bb6c284e.ok.shawcable.net[24.71.254.93] port=42603) by central.weird.com([198.96.117.51] port=587) via TCP with esmtp (7365 bytes) (sender: ) (ident using UNIX) id for ; Fri, 22 May 2020 19:50:34 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2.0.122-Pre 2005-Nov-17 #78 built 2020-Mar-25) Received: from (invalid client hostname: the DNS A record (with the targegt address [10.0.1.129]) for the hostname 'more.local' does not match the expected address [10.0.1.129])more.local ((no PTR matching greeting name)future.local[10.0.1.133] port=65137) by more.local([10.0.1.129] port=25) via TCP with esmtp (6855 bytes) (sender: ) id for ; Fri, 22 May 2020 16:50:33 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.122-Pre 2005-Nov-17 #1 built 2015-Feb-17) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 16:50:33 -0700 From: "Greg A. Woods" To: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list In-Reply-To: <8a2e9b1b-8890-a783-5b53-c8480c070f2e@telegraphics.com.au> References: <8a2e9b1b-8890-a783-5b53-c8480c070f2e@telegraphics.com.au> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) SEMI-EPG/1.14.7 (Harue) FLIM/1.14.9 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Goj=F2?=) APEL/10.8 EasyPG/1.0.0 Emacs/25.3 (x86_64--netbsd) MULE/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) X-Face: ; j3Eth2XV8h1Yfu*uL{<:dQ$#E[DB0gemGZJ"J#4fH*][ lz; @-iwMv_u\6uIEKR0KY"=MzoQH#CrqBN`nG_5B@rrM8,f~Gr&h5a\= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --pgp-sign-Multipart_Fri_May_22_16:50:00_2020-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I always assumed C became popular because there was a very large cohort of programmers who started with it as their first language, usually on early Unix, at university, in the late very 1970s and early 1980s. After all if I was exposed to it a small Canadian university in the early 1980s, then surely it was almost everywhere! At least that's how it happened for me. I was already fluent in BASIC and reasonably good at Pascal before I went to university, and though we had a very wide variety of languages to work with since we had accounts on both Unix and Multics systems right from the start of first year, C was the strong favourite amongst both juniors and phds, i.e. all but the most die-hard Multics lovers (who of course used and loved PL/1, though by 1985 there was even talk of C on Multics). Some of this popularity of C was no doubt due to the fact that those a year or two ahead of me had started with FORTRAN on an IBM 370 and had absolutely hated it and were very vocal to those of us coming up behind that we were very lucky to jump right onto the Unix (and Multics) machines right from the start. My first job programming in 1983/84 was back to BASIC and assembler, but a year later and I was writing C again (though sadly mostly on MS-DOS, briefly on Xenix, then back to very early MS-Windows until about 1988 -- not long in hindsight, but it was painful). At Thu, 21 May 2020 12:10:35 -0400, Toby Thain wrote: Subject: Re: [TUHS] History of popularity of C > > - inexpensive compiler availability was not very good until ~1990 or > later, but C had been taking off like wildfire for 10 years before that Well, there were a plethora of both full C and "tiny"/"small" C compilers widely available in the very early 1980s. Indeed I would say inexpensive C compilers were widely available and very popular well before 1985, and a few "toy/tiny" compilers were freely available by then too. By 1985 I was doing C development, primarily on MS-DOS systems, using commercial compilers, for a wide variety of projects, mostly in big national companies (in Canada, such as CP Rail). I would say C was the first commercially successful systems-level language available across many platforms, and that this was evidently so by 1985. Early Atari (6502) computers were partly programmed with a cross- compiler, though I've no idea what it was (possibly a re-targeted PCC). I think VisiCalc had similar origins. The most ground-breaking C compiler might arguably have been P.J.Plauger's Whitesmiths C compiler, around about 1978. I don't think it was what you'd call "inexpensive" necessarily, but it was popular. The BD Software company's C compiler for CP/M (8080/z80) was released in 1979. The first version of Mark Williams C came out very early, possibly before 1980. I owned a copy for MS-DOS 386 by 1985/86. This was the most Unix-like compiler and library, by far, and quite inexpensive (else I wouldn't have been able to afford my own personal copy). Small-C appeared in Dr.Dobb's in May 1980 (and it spawned a plethora of derivatives of its own). C was everywhere in personal computing literature by 1980. I believe Aztec C was first released in 1980. Two books about C were published by McGraw-Hill in 1982: "The C Primer", Les Hancock and Morris Krieger; and "The C Puzzle Book", Alan R. Feuer. There were likely more. Then there was Lattice C, out and about by 1982 and VERY popular and widely used by 1984. (I was using the second version in 1985/1986 on PCs. It's probably the buggiest compiler I've ever used for real work projects.) "Learning to Program in C" by Thomas Plum was published 1983. And of course there was Tanenbaum and Jacobs' ACK, with a C parser front-end in the early 1980s (even by 1980?). Brad Templeton wrote a C (or maybe Tiny-C) compiler for C64/6502 around about 1984 (though he only commercialized the "PAL" assembler I think). In my estimation GCC really only served to cement C's early success and popularity. It gave people certainty that a good C compiler would be available for most any platform no matter what happened. I would also argue that non-Unix C compilers actually drove the adoption curve of C. Pascal tried to play catch-up, but just as with what happened to me in university where it was one of the teaching languages, C was just far more popular and though Pascal had a tiny head-start (in terms of first-published books/manuals), C overtook it and had far more staying power too (though indeed in the late 1980s there was a fair battle going on in the pc/mac/amiga/etc world for Pascal). -- Greg A. Woods Kelowna, BC +1 250 762-7675 RoboHack Planix, Inc. Avoncote Farms --pgp-sign-Multipart_Fri_May_22_16:50:00_2020-1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: OpenPGP Digital Signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABECAB0WIQTWEnAIIlcZX4oAawJie18UwlnHhQUCXshlPwAKCRBie18UwlnH hZKvAJ9o/7dD1hJndy+IkD/2dAqhDLFbngCbBorxutAFKvH6iiUF7scp72mgR0w= =VMHO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pgp-sign-Multipart_Fri_May_22_16:50:00_2020-1--