From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 9222 invoked from network); 26 May 2020 22:37:11 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 26 May 2020 22:37:11 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 9AB529C967; Wed, 27 May 2020 08:37:09 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 933E29C856; Wed, 27 May 2020 08:36:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id ED6369C765; Wed, 27 May 2020 08:36:33 +1000 (AEST) Received: from central.weird.com (unknown [198.96.117.51]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 269759C5EC for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 08:36:33 +1000 (AEST) Received: from (invalid client hostname: bind: DNS error: DNS lookup for A for 'more.local': Unknown host)more.local ((no PTR matching greeting name)S01060026bb6c284e.ok.shawcable.net[24.71.254.93] port=38731) by central.weird.com([198.96.117.51] port=587) via TCP with esmtp (4787 bytes) (sender: ) (ident using UNIX) id for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 18:36:32 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2.0.122-Pre 2005-Nov-17 #78 built 2020-Mar-25) Received: from (invalid client hostname: the DNS A record (with the targegt address [10.0.1.129]) for the hostname 'more.local' does not match the expected address [10.0.1.129])more.local ((no PTR matching greeting name)future.local[10.0.1.133] port=65449) by more.local([10.0.1.129] port=25) via TCP with esmtp (4277 bytes) (sender: ) id for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 15:36:31 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.122-Pre 2005-Nov-17 #1 built 2015-Feb-17) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 15:36:31 -0700 From: "Greg A. Woods" To: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list In-Reply-To: References: <8a2e9b1b-8890-a783-5b53-c8480c070f2e@telegraphics.com.au> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) SEMI-EPG/1.14.7 (Harue) FLIM/1.14.9 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Goj=F2?=) APEL/10.8 EasyPG/1.0.0 Emacs/25.3 (x86_64--netbsd) MULE/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) X-Face: ; j3Eth2XV8h1Yfu*uL{<:dQ$#E[DB0gemGZJ"J#4fH*][ lz; @-iwMv_u\6uIEKR0KY"=MzoQH#CrqBN`nG_5B@rrM8,f~Gr&h5a\= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --pgp-sign-Multipart_Tue_May_26_15:36:20_2020-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII At Tue, 26 May 2020 23:48:43 +0200, "Thomas Paulsen" wrote: Subject: Re: [TUHS] History of popularity of C > > they don't play any role, as the C language was defined decades ago. I learned it > before the ansi committee came to an end by Turbo C and soon later MS C, and then > various *NIX compilers. Recently I written a couple of linux programs using gcc > with exactly the same syntax I studied 30 years ago, and it works pretty cool. All > these programs are error free performing very fast while having a small memory > footprint. For me there is nothing better than C, and I know a lot of languages. You might be surprised by just how much C has been changed since, say, C89, or even C90, and how niggly the corner cases can get (i.e. where UB sticks its ugly head). Lots of legacy code is now completely broken, at least with the very latest compilers (especially LLVM, but also GCC). Some far more recently written code has even had important security problems, e.g. one in the Linux kernel. NetBSD has to turn off specific "features" in the newest compilers when building the kernel lest they create a broken and/or insecure system. Some code no longer does what it seems to do unless you're the most careful language lawyer at reading it, Standard in hand, and with years of experience. Some compilers can help, e.g. by inserting illegal instructions anywhere where UB would have otherwise allowed the optimizer to go wild and possibly change things completely, but without such tools, and others such as Valgrind, one can get into a heap-o-trouble with the slightest misstep; and of course these tools only work for user-land code, not bare-metal code such as embedded systems and kernels. -- Greg A. Woods Kelowna, BC +1 250 762-7675 RoboHack Planix, Inc. Avoncote Farms --pgp-sign-Multipart_Tue_May_26_15:36:20_2020-1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: OpenPGP Digital Signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABECAB0WIQTWEnAIIlcZX4oAawJie18UwlnHhQUCXs2Z6AAKCRBie18UwlnH hR1vAJ4mYlaRFfnnv4Go0KtBFOlbxVVpowCeOYdLCI53ige4LKjDhHij/E4yinY= =Onkn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pgp-sign-Multipart_Tue_May_26_15:36:20_2020-1--