From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 11285 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2021 21:30:10 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 4 Feb 2021 21:30:10 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 424B99C7B7; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 07:30:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 525039C2E4; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 07:29:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 289089C2E4; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 07:29:18 +1000 (AEST) Received: from central.weird.com (unknown [198.96.117.51]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58BD49C20C for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 07:29:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: from (invalid client hostname: bind: DNS error: DNS lookup for A for 'more.local': Unknown host)more.local ((no PTR matching greeting name)d207-6-82-137.bchsia.telus.net[207.6.82.137] port=51773) by central.weird.com([198.96.117.51] port=587) via TCP with esmtp (4792 bytes) (sender: ) (ident using UNIX) id for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 16:29:13 -0500 (EST) (Smail-3.2.0.122-Pre 2005-Nov-17 #78 built 2020-Mar-25) Received: from (invalid client hostname: the DNS A record (with the targegt address [10.0.1.129]) for the hostname 'more.local' does not match the expected address [10.0.1.129])more.local ((no PTR matching greeting name)xentastic.local[10.0.1.140] port=64745) by more.local([10.0.1.129] port=25) via TCP with esmtp (4287 bytes) (sender: ) id for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 13:29:12 -0800 (PST) (Smail-3.2.0.122-Pre 2005-Nov-17 #1 built 2015-Feb-17) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2021 13:29:12 -0800 From: "Greg A. Woods" To: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list In-Reply-To: References: <20201006154420.2C93C18C099@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) SEMI-EPG/1.14.7 (Harue) FLIM/1.14.9 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Goj=F2?=) APEL/10.8 EasyPG/1.0.0 Emacs/25.3 (x86_64--netbsd) MULE/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) X-Face: ; j3Eth2XV8h1Yfu*uL{<:dQ$#E[DB0gemGZJ"J#4fH*][ lz; @-iwMv_u\6uIEKR0KY"=MzoQH#CrqBN`nG_5B@rrM8,f~Gr&h5a\= List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --pgp-sign-Multipart_Thu_Feb__4_13:28:57_2021-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII At Tue, 6 Oct 2020 23:14:57 -0400, John Cowan wrote: Subject: Re: [TUHS] Origins of globbing > > Multics had support for * and ?, but I don't know when that was added or if > it was there from the beginning. Multics filenames, unlike DEC ones, allow > multiple dots, which are treated specially by these characters: neither ? > nor * can match a dot, but ** can. So perhaps they got into Unix from > Multics after all. Stratus VOS is another direct descendant of Multics, > but I don't know if it has globs. Multics called them "starnames". I don't know when they were added, but mention of "starname" support appears in some of the very early technical bulletins, e.g. MTP-042 from February 1974. Interestingly in Multics starname expansion was/is always the responsibility of the application, not the shell. This has its advantages, such as in the "help" command where the user can find help without knowing exactly how to spell what they're looking for. In fact when I first learned long ago that the Unix shell did the expansion I remember immediately thinking of some of these issues, as by that time I had already learned something of Multics. It is also used to good advantage in Multics Emacs without having to have Emacs re-implement some part of the shell, or indeed without having to call the shell, or some part of the shell. (Honeywell Bull notes about differences between Multics and Unix also indicate that '$' was not used for variable expansion, but there were other ways to do it on Multics.) On the other hand the Multics shell could and was/is modifiable or replaceable by the user, so it wouldn't have been too hard to do starname expansion in a shell implementation as well. Also, given the way the Multics shell did command substitution (pretty much right from the beginning, IIUC, and for sure by 1968), it would also be trivial to use something like V6 "glob" to do starname expansion for commands that didn't do it themselves. -- Greg A. Woods Kelowna, BC +1 250 762-7675 RoboHack Planix, Inc. Avoncote Farms --pgp-sign-Multipart_Thu_Feb__4_13:28:57_2021-1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: OpenPGP Digital Signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABECAB0WIQTWEnAIIlcZX4oAawJie18UwlnHhQUCYBxnHgAKCRBie18UwlnH hYUtAKDrnXwMfOTm6pQdTwBRUUzyTN1OaACeOQTimtbnAIhJb1lkjGQgMwd9dtI= =KDwq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pgp-sign-Multipart_Thu_Feb__4_13:28:57_2021-1--