From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_24_48, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB101222EA for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2024 01:30:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46BAC436D2; Tue, 18 Jun 2024 09:30:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: from central.weird.com (mail.weird.com [198.96.117.51]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4583E436D1 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2024 09:30:45 +1000 (AEST) Received: from (invalid client hostname: bind: DNS error: DNS lookup for A for 'more.local': Unknown host)more.local ((no PTR matching greeting name)d207-6-82-137.bchsia.telus.net[207.6.82.137] port=61752) by central.weird.com([198.96.117.51] port=587) via TCP with esmtp (4768 bytes) (sender: ) (ident using UNIX) id for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2024 19:30:40 -0400 (EDT) (Smail-3.2.0.122-Pre 2005-Nov-17 #1 built 2022-Feb-11) Received: from more.local ([10.0.1.129] port=61755) by more.local([10.0.1.129] port=25) via TCP with esmtp (4292 bytes) (sender: ) id for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2024 00:57:42 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.122-Pre 2005-Nov-17 #1 built 2022-Apr-6) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2024 00:57:42 -0700 From: "Greg A. Woods" To: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list In-Reply-To: References: <87msnl4ew0.fsf@gmail.com> <87iky84c23.fsf@gmail.com> <20240617012531.GE12821@mcvoy.com> <0e6792ed-65b0-e2e1-8159-6426a7f15a8d@riddermarkfarm.ca> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) SEMI-EPG/1.14.7 (Harue) FLIM-LB/1.14.9 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Goj=F2?=) APEL-LB/10.8 EasyPG/1.0.0 Emacs/26.3 (x86_64--netbsd) MULE/6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) X-Face: ;j3Eth2XV8h1Yfu*uL{<:dQ$#E[DB0gemGZJ"J#4fH*][ lz;@-iwMv_u\6uIEKR0KY"=MzoQH#CrqBN`nG_5B@rrM8,f~Gr&h5a\= Subject: [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' The Register List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --pgp-sign-Multipart_Sun_Jun_16_00:57:29_2024-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII At Mon, 17 Jun 2024 18:34:06 -0400 (EDT), Steve Nickolas wrote: Subject: [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' The Register > > Which is why I'm glad Debian's /bin/sh is dash (fork of ash) instead. Well, to be pedantic "dash" was a direct descendant of NetBSD's /bin/sh, which in turn was the shell from 4.4BSD, which was of course originally Kenneth Almquist's Ash. Quite a few changes were made to the shell in BSD between the time it was imported (1991), and the 4.4 release (1995). Unfortunately Dash now lags very far behind NetBSD's /bin/sh code. If they had just kept it as a port of the upstream code and continued to update it from upstream then "they" would now have a much better shell (as much development has occurred in NetBSD since 1997), but no it's a full-on fork that's basically ignored its upstream parent since day one. It is doomed now to need fixes for the same bugs again, often in incompatible ways, and probably inevitably new features will be added to it, also in incompatible ways. Then again OpenBSD and FreeBSD (and its derivatives) have also continued forked development of the 4.4BSD shell (and most of the rest of the system) with only very occasional sharing of code back and forth with NetBSD. I guess this forking of code is also somewhat a part of "Unix" practice, even if it goes against the strict tenets of Unix philosophy. I don't think it's as egregious as the N.I.H. "doctrine" (of which systemd could be the result of, and cmake is definitely the result of), but it is problematic. -- Greg A. Woods Kelowna, BC +1 250 762-7675 RoboHack Planix, Inc. Avoncote Farms --pgp-sign-Multipart_Sun_Jun_16_00:57:29_2024-1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: OpenPGP Digital Signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABECAB0WIQTWEnAIIlcZX4oAawJie18UwlnHhQUCZm6a7AAKCRBie18UwlnH hYkKAJ9Fk06YnC+W5lGAlwJEH9ImYJ3K9wCgz3/CWwzO5RXDaOJRYUkeT1aENIc= =zEbf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pgp-sign-Multipart_Sun_Jun_16_00:57:29_2024-1--