From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 16166 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2024 05:09:08 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 6 Jan 2024 05:09:08 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6280C43F20; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 15:09:02 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuhs.org; s=dkim; t=1704517743; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-owner:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=ZHIZfjfXTMfu+fuYeJZwx1c84e5e5yQTENhBq2QjQ98=; b=gnaR63uTUWuX902HdMgIpRRcx42NvUxyQCw4KKCxA40WbQs+S0KV09yL7Sp/mQ8sEBcOyg mq6oIHwFaYZQm2SXM9UTBNxa/0/xHvGfobF0iz506V5jwl3+k7EkmpcwRzO45C4SVMiF5Y bj2737IPqSIaVn+krxpVMYya8CAPWfo= Received: from mail-4325.protonmail.ch (mail-4325.protonmail.ch [185.70.43.25]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B6C043F1F for ; Sat, 6 Jan 2024 15:08:55 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1704517733; x=1704776933; bh=ZHIZfjfXTMfu+fuYeJZwx1c84e5e5yQTENhBq2QjQ98=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=LuRoilFpOVuRFfmvJAd5r8SbkzmhQaLL9vfiYvnaLtAFHNvEd7Av2B4pBBtcM6ZC6 8TJk4aGym/X+MuXqpLN/3v6Gdwaajzh/WC3rBv2Ujam517MhFXd+5fuQ3YI7h1YM8T QX2oPoprICSggM96ov4ATL+HgcU5XRuWjpChChs5tCkW8iNPpALFlLqdxCeXNbWoEK qag1SBdXHVw6Txw9aF7+rYCvt+g0xWdXUdU8D57LsrEjhKnqFYNoYVn4hMhXBAj/dz 9ozzd0mxDEAauSN0OkX+hEayLJVXpx6YsDHpua6BRSxM+Pswpd2l/bk+k3dYsgK6kv ISLErbCa2lmEA== Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2024 05:08:28 +0000 To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20240106012631.D984037403FB@freecalypso.org> References: <20240105221729.371EA37401DA@freecalypso.org> <20240106012631.D984037403FB@freecalypso.org> Feedback-ID: 35591162:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: XTWN57ZVPL5MU4TP5E57SVU7PQO3IQLM X-Message-ID-Hash: XTWN57ZVPL5MU4TP5E57SVU7PQO3IQLM X-MailFrom: segaloco@protonmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Original print of V7 manual? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: segaloco via TUHS Reply-To: segaloco Alright here's some commentary on and pictures of key pieces (I'll make ref= erence to USG/PWB stuff in here too, but don't have pictures, 4.0 and 5.0/S= ystem V docs are scanned, variations on System III docs as well, can point = those out to you if needed): > * Vol 2a doc 8, "Typing Documents on the UNIX System", M. E. Lesk: the > last page of this paper exhibits a "Figure 1" drawing that appears to > have been done literally by hand ... > ... this hand drawing appears on page 346. Does it look exactly > the same in V7 original? https://i.imgur.com/CiUz01n.jpg - V7 left, 4.2BSD right https://i.imgur.com/i8uxEbv.jpg - V7 revised left, V7 right The V7 and 4.2BSD pages are closer than the V7 and V7 HRW Revised edition. = Most noticeably there is some schmutz there around RP that is in both V7 a= nd 4.2BSD, but not the HRW version. This paper is not in the USG/PWB 3.0 and onward stuff, MM is fully entrench= ed as the standard macro package in that lineage. There is a Typing Docume= nts with MM but this is a little foldout reference card. > * Vol 2a doc 12, "NROFF/TROFF User's Manual", J. F. Ossanna - please > look at the following details: >=20 > - in Table I (Font Style Examples), is the square character hollow in > all 3 fonts (like in 4.2BSD print), or is it filled in bold or in any > other font? >=20 > - the two pointing hand characters in Special Mathematical Font, do > they look exactly the same between V7 and 4.2BSD? https://i.imgur.com/k3OflK4.jpg - 4.2BSD left, V7 right https://i.imgur.com/ZBPj8kK.jpg - V7 left, V7 revised right Nothing really jumps out at me as significantly different. The smaller pre= ssing on the Usenix stuff makes some of the busier characters (e.g. copyrig= ht) look pretty filled in, but this may not represent a difference in expos= ures of original plates. The pointing characters are likely the same, but = the smaller pressing makes it quite difficult to see the cuffs clearly, in = my physical copy of 4.2BSD it's barely intelligible that there's a cuff on = the left hand. For the record, the System III's Table 1 looks pretty shoddy, like a severa= l generations removed photocopy of the V7 version. Release 4.0's table I t= hink reflects Bell's shift into ditroff territory, as it has wholly new fon= ts, and now the Special Mathematical Font is noted as prepared by Wang Labo= ratories, Inc. rather than Graphic Systems, Inc., reflecting the purchase o= f GSI by Wang. The System V document drops this font table entirely. > * Vol 2a doc 13, "A TROFF Tutorial", B. W. Kernighan: is there a final > page titled "Appendix A: Phototypesetter Character Set" ... missing in > both 4.2BSD and 4.3BSD prints from Usenix. >=20 > - If this Appendix A page is included, how does \(sq look? Is it > hollow in the main table but filled in bold, or is hollow in both > places? (Or something else?) https://i.imgur.com/cDpAXTS.jpg - V7 single shot https://i.imgur.com/iHKuuYE.jpg - V7 left, V7 revised right Bold square is filled, regular is hollow in both printings. Nothing I can = spot that really tells them apart. The story is the the same with System III, just a kinda fuzzier later gener= ation from the same plate. Gotta remind myself anything being distributed = in earnest as "System III" is a few years down the line from V7, probably n= ot worth it to try and go find the plates and make really clean copies agai= n. The page in Release 4.0 is revamped, and also reflects the new font, al= ong with additional characters and details, although the square fill/no-fil= l is the same. I can't find a section of the System V Document Processing = Guide that resembles A TROFF Tutorial, that specific paper may not be repre= sented in documentation after 4.0. > * Vol 2a doc 16, "Make - A Program for Maintaining Computer Programs", > S. I. Feldman: first of all, do page breaks line up perfectly between > V7 and 4.2BSD prints? If they do, please look at the top of page > labeled "- 6 -": there is a drawing that was apparently done by hand, > similarly to the one in the -ms document, although this one is a bit > simpler. Does it look like the drawing in 4.2BSD version is exactly > the same as in V7? https://i.imgur.com/ZihxD0P.jpg - V7 left, 4.2BSD right Nothing noticeably different, same is true with V7 revised, didn't bother t= o take a picture. Same in System III. Release 4.0 once again is changed with the new typeset= ter. This changes yet again in System V. Here's a picture since this is t= he one of that lot not scanned yet: https://i.imgur.com/C0Hm9DO.jpeg > * Vol 2b doc 31, "UNIX Implementation", K. Thompson: does it look > exactly the same between V7 and 4.2BSD? Do all page breaks line up? > There is Fig 1 on page 2 and Fig 2 on page 8 - do they look the same > between the two prints? https://i.imgur.com/fpYnC0S.jpg - Fig. 1, V7 left, 4.2BSD right https://i.imgur.com/KfZbhSB.jpg - Fig. 2, Same Arrangement No noticeable difference, same is true of the HRW volumes. I only have System III Volume 2A, this is a 2B paper so can't vouch for it,= although there's a Plexus System III Volume 2B on bitsavers that I believe= contains papers that are also BTL typesetting exposures, just packed in wi= th some fluff from Plexus. These diagrams do appear to be revamped for Rel= ease 4.0, and like A TROFF Tutorial I don't think there's a variation on th= is paper included with the System V set. It's a bit complicated with those= since they in some cases broke down the barriers between different documen= ts, merged them together, dropped some pieces, added some others...etc, the= transformation from Release 4.0 to System V pretty much brought an end to = the conventional papers format and ushered in the style of the commercial e= ra literature. > Finally, in Volume 1 - how does eqnchar(7) page look in the original > V7 version? The version in 4.2BSD print was clearly retroffed anew, > as the date in the footer is 1983 - so I wonder how the original V7 > version looked. Is the "blot" character a black filled square, or is > it something else? Are "square" and "circle" just above it both > hollow? https://i.imgur.com/bpolKEF.jpg - 4.2BSD left, V7 right https://i.imgur.com/QmaqCe0.jpg - V7 left, V7 HRW right The V7 and 4.2BSD material appears to originate from the same plate, althou= gh the V7 and V7 revised are noticeably different. For instance, note the = change in size of the blot square. Goodness gracious did the situation lead to a little rabbit hole with the U= SG/PWB line: https://i.imgur.com/NH4hk8c.jpeg - 3.0 left, 4.1 middle, 5.0 right https://i.imgur.com/xVQVOMu.jpeg - System V (DEC, 3B20) left, System V (3B5= ) middle, SVR2 (HRW) right So Release 3.0 looks a lot like the original V7 stuff, but then into 4.1 an= d 5.0, instead you see the larger blot symbol and addition of scrL, among o= ther differences. However, both System V documents, while having for insta= nce the addition of scrL, *also* have the smaller blot symbol that hasn't b= een in this documentation line since probably 3.0. This isn't the only thi= ng like this, for instance the System V variants refer to a "UNIX (System) = User Guide" but then the Release (i.e. internal) stuff has "UNIX (System) U= ser's Guide". There are other such very, very minor discrepancies between = the USG internal releases and the published System V stuff, almost as if th= ey technically split earlier and were just cross-pollinating since, but wha= t strikes me as odd is 4.1 does get the updated blot character, so System V= not having it was either a regression in the document typesetting *or* evi= dence that whatever became the System V eqnchar(5) page shares a separate b= ranch point from 3.0 than that seen in 4.1 and 5.0. Speculation though, ca= n't say for sure, it's just...odd... Finally, you'll note that the page in the HRW book is goofed, none of the c= haracters are actually there, just a copy of the string invoking them. Who= ops, it happens. > What was the physical form of this book? Was it a "perfect bound" > book? Comb binding like BSD books? Or was it just a 3-ring binder > which anyone could open and add/remove pages easily? Here are some angled shots of some of these books, some of the stuff scans = and cover pictures don't really catch: https://i.imgur.com/tQ7wP80.jpeg - V7 HRW https://i.imgur.com/plKh9Ji.jpeg - 4.2BSD Usenix (Not first editions, those= apparently had white combs?) https://i.imgur.com/0ONBep9.jpeg - System III Volume 2A and Release 4.0 Sta= rter Packages https://i.imgur.com/hM7F0R4.jpeg - System V various bindings Anything research V7 and back was largely just papers in ringed binders or = report covers. I've seen some pictures of literature in Bell Labs report c= overs of similar motif to the Release 3.0 manual cover (Saul Bass logo, bl= ue/yellow stripe) with a window to see the titlepage through. Dunno if tha= t was something commonly done or just someone's copy for their desk they pu= t together with available covers. V8 was a comb bound manual, V9 appears t= o be a hard cover (Doug M. sent me a cover scan for the wiki), and external= V10 at least were perfect bound. BSD documentation was largely similar to research documentation until the U= senix run. There were a limited number of 4.1BSD documents printed on both= blank-covered and Bell Labs-covered comb-bound media for a particular Bell= Labs group, these also include the Marx supplement. Other folks here can = probably tell you oodles more about that stuff. 4.2 is then the start of t= he Usenix manuals, although it is also quite common for loose/binder distri= bution at this time as well, same for 4.3BSD. That compsci lounge bookshel= f has a few 4.3BSD binders that look old enough, they've got that V7 volume= 2 keeping them company now. Finally, 4.4BSD documents were perfect bound = by O'Reilly. I believe at least some USG Program Generic documentation was comb bound in= the 70s. The only specimen I know of is a document describing the kernel = routines in Program Generic II. Available CB-UNIX documentation appears to= be papers in binders. Early PWB I'm fairly certain was also distributed l= ike this, although I have some curiosity if the publication quality improve= d somewhat with PWB 2.0 as there is a quite nice bibliography document from= around that time with a nicely made cover in maroon with the Saul Bass log= o among other things. If a bibliography got such nice treatment, maybe the= manuals handed out to employees did as well, but I wasn't there. PWB 3.0, which drops the PWB to become Release 3.0, is then when comb bound= is the norm for manuals from USG. However, at this time the supplementary= papers are still typically just loose pages in a report cover or binder. = As seen above, when WECo goes to distribute this commercially, the secondar= y volumes were bound in report covers. The large Release 4.0 documentation= set was similarly two volumes of papers, but Bell Labs also cut a smaller = subset of the documents in the form of two "Starter Packages" geared toward= s programmers and typists respectively. These as you can see are the large= form but comb bound, something I don't think I've seen with other Bell Sys= tem UNIX stuff. I quite like this format, if I had to travel with these do= cuments this format is what I'd pack in my luggage. Getting on to Release 5.0 and System V, these also featured comb-bound manu= als, although the supporting literature was distributed in a few different = formats. From the picture above you can see that they shipped binders, per= fect bound books (with 7 holes punched in them Bell style), and papers in r= eport covers. Of all the materials, the papers in the report covers look t= he most "TROFF-ish", the rest are very BSP-ish. For the 3B5 release of Sys= tem V, WECo opted towards small three ring binders instead, a trend that wo= uld continue into SVR2. Internal to Bell Labs, their expanded manual was a= lso a comb-bound issue for System V, just with a different cover, but the B= TL issue of SVR2 features a completely different binder, down to the rings,= plastic, etc. not even sourced from the same kind as the ones out in the w= orld. Still it was a binder, something that would continue with the red SV= R2 and SVR3 binders distributed with ATTIS products. Finally, Bell has some other perfect bound stuff in that the revised V7 man= ual discussed here is of course bound this way (also with the punched holes= , only three of them though) as well as the HRW 5 volume SVR2 set (the one = with the metalic alphabet block cover.) There are then SVR3 and SVR4 perfe= ct bound manuals, the former being generally grey with a colorful globe pic= ture bearing "UNIX" in the middle with lines going all over the globe from = it, while the latter start off as a series of blue books with a globe and b= ig gold "V" and UNIX superimposed on it. Later SVR4 stuff transitioned to = a series of solid color covers and then on to white covers with some small = landscape picture (SVR4.2 era pretty sure.) There are other odds and ends = but that covers a good chunk of what I'm aware of. > TIA for all this scrutiny, > Your resident troff nut Mychaela Oh I think we've got a few of those :) By the way, this is lots of stuff, thanks for bearing with me, I saw this a= s an opportunity to attempt to summarize much of what I've learned the past= few years about how all of this documentation was produced and presented. = That said, I may have parts of the story inaccurate as again, I wasn't the= re, so apologies for any misrepresentations and corrections to the record a= re welcome and encouraged! Finally, just because it's worth pointing out, here's comparisons of the bi= nder V7 set covers vs published V7 set covers: Vol 1: https://i.imgur.com/kJ3LcjH.jpg Vol 2: https://i.imgur.com/rdjnrkP.jpg Whew. I'm tapped out. If you have any further questions I'll probably chi= t chat 1 on 1 but figured it might be good to tie all these threads togethe= r in a message on list, especially so I can be corrected, I'm a secondary s= ource after all. - Matt G.