From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D0C923ADE for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2024 19:49:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C275C431B6; Thu, 4 Jul 2024 03:49:44 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuhs.org; s=dkim; t=1720028984; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-owner:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=/pSTkqqg/o9xsk6QfbMv5OUE/SOun3nejGcMZuw2YX4=; b=TIyKNzrn1AnBHj4YFae5MuipXmKBA8Fi1ROYuAfEX3oT8z6uTTICKpy3HbqKe+xfu27Zq3 7k0TmSK2RKGTL3o9FVx3amFMKzvWKTLNNODI7kX5Ed7rFdC2LxptVSkn5ZXvarBAprOSQp CptsqZlvhX9ceCZY5SgDAPwVC7+wBzM= Received: from mail-40137.protonmail.ch (mail-40137.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.137]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D5C3D431AE for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2024 03:49:35 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1720028973; x=1720288173; bh=/pSTkqqg/o9xsk6QfbMv5OUE/SOun3nejGcMZuw2YX4=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=F/DAeBE3GqatDy0vSsxEK43QwnEyu6CY+HnU4GMfBjDX8hl+LYZ+YAxMlMNRYVYGL Oiiat8aEB6+b69kiNBYS27hYlUaMX3Vpr9Jq8u6tTVbi1/oZRXRECenTVojz16LVAd 5Oi6hqQ+5f02lIn+12h6rwyL0pNmq6kVRlxl8OitS2jvzpNlpjc5Cox3G++vUC12zt gK000hxxeErwOhCpnemHA+btiG0Ed51i1fQekWSs0ltSiBLx2fV3tNk79iWdqjDxLh ZiF545o4OqcwZzZISfmOFtIwigx0957O/tyWSR+WIcaEidtOE9Rk9p5VUTPMfiS2UL /e6Im5EEs2Vcw== Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2024 17:49:29 +0000 To: tuhs@tuhs.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8dd2489a-69da-4a0a-bf54-b2dc54bc7215@gmail.com> References: <93529CA0-7097-443C-999B-384BE6BD5683@canb.auug.org.au> <8dd2489a-69da-4a0a-bf54-b2dc54bc7215@gmail.com> Feedback-ID: 35591162:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 743f86b0cb98fb3865994b6f7632ddf40c006939 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: BCHKDYMPCKVAJ3LSXX66LAY73PH2PPON X-Message-ID-Hash: BCHKDYMPCKVAJ3LSXX66LAY73PH2PPON X-MailFrom: segaloco@protonmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Anyone ever heard of teaching a case study of Initial Unix? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: segaloco via TUHS Reply-To: segaloco On Wednesday, July 3rd, 2024 at 10:39 AM, Jon Forrest wr= ote: >=20 > On 7/3/24 8:35 AM, Marc Donner wrote: >=20 > > There have been case study courses here and there over the years. I > > would argue that Lyons=E2=80=99s book of sources was the text for one. = An old > > crony, Ed Smith, used to teach a comparative programming languages > > course back in the day. And I know someone at NYU taught a course where > > people studied the source code of a variety of utilities. >=20 >=20 > In the late 70s or early 80s there was an OS class at UC Santa Barbara > taught by John Bruno that used the Lions books of V6 Unix sources and > commentary. He had to go through some kind of special efforts to > get the books. >=20 > Jon I'm curious, if such a work was produced not from original specimens of the= Bell Laboratories Sixth Edition source code, but rather someone sitting wi= th a PDP-11 disassembler and meticulously stepping over the code, would pub= lishing a work based on the latter analysis run afoul of the same legal cir= cumstances as what John Lions published in the 70s? I do have a pointed reason to ask: one of my long term goals is to write a = case-study-type analysis of a Famicom/NES title, in other words, a John Lio= ns-esque work based on one of my disassemblies of such a title. The intent= ion is to not only step through the (disassembled, not original) source cod= e of a real world game and explain in detail precisely how it operates but = also draw connections to other titles by the same development team and the = historical conditions of the game's production. I haven't seen such a work= focused on a video game, and it's something I always wanted to sink my tee= th into as a beginner, so my hope is I can use what I've learned over the y= ears to provide for others what I once wanted in the past. Something complicating the matter is console video games aren't licensed qu= ite like operating systems or software utilities, it's typically an "All Ri= ghts Reserved" sort of situation rather than a lengthy license expounding o= n user rights, at least in my experience. Anywho, curious what folks think= , whether disassembly of a work a user does have license to (and of which t= he license makes no statement on reverse engineering/disassembly) can then = be used by fair use or some other claim in an expository, non-commercial wo= rk. - Matt G. P.S. On the note of old UNIX reverse engineering ideas, is anyone aware of = any early (early 80s and back) attempts to produce something akin to a C de= compiler, something that could effectively analyze assembly produced by a C= compiler and make a good guess as to what C made it up based on calling co= nventions, stack frames, known optimization techniques, etc?