From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 23022 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2023 16:39:24 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 21 Oct 2023 16:39:24 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEA1042453; Sun, 22 Oct 2023 02:39:19 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuhs.org; s=dkim; t=1697906359; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-owner:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=5UJJ57dcgYa5QpCUJCaoNEsTcZ+6pxgzOskiWoBQPM0=; b=sL7fWF7JZj63GqDXbWvHsxtfeGseHOWKLiJl+Ldj/5l7uOaPpRh9PLdUDPIoD9euuT3pv2 l/fMVvcYte7VcD4ACqaT6g+YmERoCkUVi6gZikh//wlrFEwOsOGrgfOmt/b35/8o+bR76L BptsaAzlmpiwVrsto05rfofLepEiCDY= Received: from mail-40138.protonmail.ch (mail-40138.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.138]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D6E142452 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 2023 02:39:14 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1697906350; x=1698165550; bh=5UJJ57dcgYa5QpCUJCaoNEsTcZ+6pxgzOskiWoBQPM0=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=bAeG6pt0pGV/CjRtHNGtc2T8IQQZBG9C71yItpywZ5a708DFNZi5ftF24tcyLXRaB gqTaxQ4a9FrB5eQbjpOqa94/aEUvCy9zR5whnbYxTli9BIxiGmQWYN5vFRzEPhV2OT JfDzYZRe556HxQFg9LoH+rmQvb9Rpzxg3EHPOfRU/aUkZ6Yv27itYQSIlbBt4fMvpb gsxpTkTgZHLC9pqIGYGme71oIuo5hlTBHfnt6HosznML9xdhlkmG76ptPYxEn02vaV HYVwfFuMKoPCLqBHJeA/ZA9ksx8CKjzRuUxd4YeAapdAWPAx/e4nn78WMJWIHh/y9R 5GMZZLiYUEjRQ== Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 16:38:59 +0000 To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <25140E5E-38B5-4CB9-B0D5-8C395206E49D@planet.nl> References: <25140E5E-38B5-4CB9-B0D5-8C395206E49D@planet.nl> Feedback-ID: 35591162:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: MCHUPX4ODMXOBVOVNOFCCLWN3ISCZM5Z X-Message-ID-Hash: MCHUPX4ODMXOBVOVNOFCCLWN3ISCZM5Z X-MailFrom: segaloco@protonmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Dave Cutler recollection about Xenix List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: segaloco via TUHS Reply-To: segaloco > Seeing the Cutler interviews reminded me of the old joke that there are o= nly two operating systems left: Unix and VMS (Linux being Unix-family and W= indows being VMS-family). I wonder if we will see it narrow down to just on= e before the hardware changes so much that the concept of an OS changes bey= ond recognition. My hypothesis would be that an entirely new approach will = come first. Android is becoming quite popular for POS systems, which is where I thought= we'd be seeing some interesting developments what with all sorts of new ha= rdware the past 5-10 years. There's some microkernel stuff going on with s= eL4 out in the world but I don't know what particularly. Redox is interest= ing, a Rust-first OS, breaking C hegemony on operating systems, but it's pr= etty much a novelty right now from what I hear. That and the actual experi= ence is still meant to be UNIX-y. At this point I wonder how realistic it would even be to introduce some par= adigm shift in OS interface. The basic syscall interface is still sitting = way up under a lot of stuff doing the heavy lifting, I imagine any kernel a= nd runtime environment that intends to actually succeed at present would at= the very least need to have interfaces for things like read/write/open/clo= se, seeks, probably fork/exec, sockets, if anyone outside of deeply embedde= d systems programmers want anything to do with it. Those discrete operatio= ns don't really go away in my mind at least until concepts like files and p= rocesses themselves are completely reimagined. Granted, this exact thing h= as been done many, many times over the past few decades, but who is running= those systems in large-scale production environments? I can't think of an= y systems I interact with outside of again deeply embedded applications tha= t aren't WNT (so VMSish), Mach, BSD, or Linux kernel based. Word on the st= reet (and implied by license notifications) that even modern game console o= perating systems like PlayStations and the Switch have a good chunk of BSD = sitting under them. And of course mobiles are mostly split Mach (iOS) and = Linux (Android). None of this is to speak to the validity of alternative s= ystems, just observations in my little corner of the world :) - Matt G.