From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 15001 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2022 01:40:25 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 14 Dec 2022 01:40:25 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0700C42451; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 11:40:20 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuhs.org; s=dkim; t=1670982020; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-owner:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=yOgx2jGpq1pCmp/ROQfmYvH1Ckw3rl/cUqRkT2qLlI0=; b=H4G/3q7HPVT2obOyNBzmcHV0H7iIXsALzSZ2LndkSXhAmZq1mnhPD/amAifMoMMu7TJEp+ L0Pur9Wzbzn1k8T/vVtHwSgyWFsZxJxC/Su3zLYZsNy23RjU1Z0JhkNWfW6+V6JNdiusTJ iRSuhy3Ny81/gmsfwQ9LIZJFAvRltGQ= Received: from mail-40130.protonmail.ch (mail-40130.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.130]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CAD042426 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 11:40:14 +1000 (AEST) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 01:40:05 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1670982011; x=1671241211; bh=yOgx2jGpq1pCmp/ROQfmYvH1Ckw3rl/cUqRkT2qLlI0=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=I1yhccGSMLC1tmI4qUPuWpCL/uTvlvBjmFjz6o/EvFGsKzn37cBkTGv3om3O6oBSB n74TuA19VX/PSQhDRDXszPIM9t+D+iGFO2eNoanBcsS/ANP+hdfLpmh8KElfuCv3YI 3AfJj14SIx9Ie/iES3d4xIp7auxXGRrflZdt9uGjVysW5ormk0w0Co1frRjENw49qF CAWHwEaG/0919SVBPh6LM9l1dggZ7VXBrWTkViyHbc73rBzLHxZ0kH25//uzm86W+l opuWdugm5sNQ2P6ONudk0sGy9W8Iir1mvBi9sVbvM2YAbkUkFe+zoMFDzRXUH2btEr 3eIHMznr7lpjw== To: Larry McVoy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20221214010531.GK20511@mcvoy.com> References: <20221211200327.GC8801@mcvoy.com> <8F5B431B-3789-42C7-8E34-0B6A417B41CF@iitbombay.org> <20221212033453.GE8801@mcvoy.com> <20221213133726.GA20511@mcvoy.com> <20221214010531.GK20511@mcvoy.com> Feedback-ID: 35591162:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: EU67NNS4FRYGTZTN6DC2SGPQWFDLR2YM X-Message-ID-Hash: EU67NNS4FRYGTZTN6DC2SGPQWFDLR2YM X-MailFrom: segaloco@protonmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Clever code (was Re: Re: Stdin Redirect in Cu History/Alternatives? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: segaloco via TUHS Reply-To: segaloco X-Spam: Yes Has anything material come of later Mach work other than knowledge and infl= uence on other systems? I don't have a complete picture but it's my unders= tanding that there were plenty of developments after NeXT and OSF had their= way with it that aren't reflected in, say, macOS. Something about said OS= s being forked before Mach 3, which is listed in some references as being m= ore true to the micro kernel architecture. As an aside, I wish Apple would actually engage with their "open source" na= ture more. I'd love to plink around in the Darwin kernel but even with Goo= gle-fu have never managed to actually get a kernel build all the way throug= h. Their lack of documentation is a painful matter. I'd love to bootstrap= it on RISC-V if I could get there... - Matt G. ------- Original Message ------- On Tuesday, December 13th, 2022 at 5:05 PM, Larry McVoy wrot= e: > On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 04:00:46PM -0700, Andrew Warkentin wrote: >=20 > > On 12/13/22, Larry McVoy lm@mcvoy.com wrote: > >=20 > > > > I'm well aware that QNX has been extremely successful commercially = and > > > > can be found in a wide range of embedded systems. I'm specifically > > > > talking about architectural influence on other OSes. > > >=20 > > > Minix? QNX predated that. > >=20 > > Yes, QNX predated Minix by several years, but Minix was completely > > independent and there was no QNX influence on it at all AFAIK. >=20 >=20 > Have you talked to Andy and confirmed that? I'd be quite surprised if > he hadn't played with QNX but who knows. I wouldn't assume he hadn't. >=20 > And forgive me for asking, do you have some axe to grind against QNX > or something? >=20 > To me, it's not that surprising that the rest of the world didn't copy > QNX because the rest of the world was either a mono-kernel or it was > Mach. Don't get me started on Mach, it has defenders but I absolutely > hate it. Mach is more of a distributed research OS that advertised > itself as a microkernel. There is nothing micro about Mach. It's > a big bloated mess. > -- > --- > Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat