From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 23405 invoked from network); 14 Dec 2022 11:56:41 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 14 Dec 2022 11:56:41 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54A564248A; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 21:56:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: from anduin.eldar.org (anduin.eldar.org [24.106.248.90]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA4CA42489 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 21:55:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: from anduin.eldar.org (IDENT:brad@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by anduin.eldar.org (8.16.1/8.13.8) with ESMTPS id 2BEBs5qV026672 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 14 Dec 2022 06:54:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from brad@localhost) by anduin.eldar.org (8.16.1/8.13.8/Submit) id 2BEBs4S8015467; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 06:54:04 -0500 (EST) From: Brad Spencer To: arnold@skeeve.com In-Reply-To: <202212140749.2BE7nWE2012686@freefriends.org> (arnold@skeeve.com) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 06:54:04 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.4 (anduin.eldar.org [0.0.0.0]); Wed, 14 Dec 2022 06:54:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID-Hash: FHGRDLRMNN6A3XHVD6Y32BS7M5URWBI2 X-Message-ID-Hash: FHGRDLRMNN6A3XHVD6Y32BS7M5URWBI2 X-MailFrom: brad@anduin.eldar.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Clever code (was Re: Re: Stdin Redirect in Cu History/Alternatives? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: arnold@skeeve.com writes: > Andrew Warkentin wrote: > >> Yes, I agree 100% that Mach is a complete and utter failure as a >> microkernel, and seems to have almost single-handedly destroyed the >> reputation of microkernels. I don't get why everyone was so focused on >> Mach-like kernels when there was a better alternative that had been >> around in some form for almost a decade before Mach (QNX wasn't the >> first of its kind; it seems to have had pretty significant influence >> from Thoth). > > I suspect because Mach was available if you had the right Unix licenses > and because it was hot in the research world in the mid 80s. Researchy > types tend to look at what other researchers are doing / using, it seems > to me often without knowledge of or caring about what people are using > in industry. (My two cents, from having worked at universities.) > > Arnold In that time frame there was a number of microkernel designs. One that has not been mentioned was OS-9 for the 6809/68000 processor. I used it pretty extensively. OS-9 was very unix like from the userland POV, when you consider something like V5 unix, however it didn't share any of the same command names, just many of the same concepts. It was close enough that if you had the C compiler, a very basic K&R compiler, you could get some of the unix command to compile without too much trouble. I ported sed from the DEC user's group source and the termcap library from BSD and created a varargs library for it. OS-9 was very microkernel and nothing like Mach or even Minix. It was also very much positioned to real time OS needs of the time and was not really marketed generally and unless you happened to have a Color Computer from Radio Shack or was a part of the nitch they served you would probably have never come across it and it would have seemed to be expensive to acquire. It was very clean, but you needed to know 6809 or 68000 assembly to create anything new for the OS itself, although at least one person had figured out how to use the C compiler, sort of, to produce assembly that could be assembled into device managers and device drivers. -- Brad Spencer - brad@anduin.eldar.org - KC8VKS - http://anduin.eldar.org