From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 32647 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2022 16:17:16 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 6 Feb 2022 16:17:16 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5B4C69D3AD; Mon, 7 Feb 2022 02:17:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD95A9B8B1; Mon, 7 Feb 2022 02:16:51 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 215179B8B1; Mon, 7 Feb 2022 02:16:47 +1000 (AEST) Received: from anduin.eldar.org (anduin.eldar.org [24.106.248.90]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19E029B68F for ; Mon, 7 Feb 2022 02:16:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from anduin.eldar.org (IDENT:brad@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by anduin.eldar.org (8.15.2/8.13.8) with ESMTPS id 216GGfmI023789 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 6 Feb 2022 11:16:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from brad@localhost) by anduin.eldar.org (8.15.2/8.13.8/Submit) id 216GGf0s021193; Sun, 6 Feb 2022 11:16:41 -0500 (EST) From: Brad Spencer To: Will Senn In-Reply-To: <21015c2c-2652-bbc3-dbd7-ad3c31f485a2@gmail.com> (message from Will Senn on Sat, 5 Feb 2022 19:10:57 -0600) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2022 11:16:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (anduin.eldar.org [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 06 Feb 2022 11:16:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [TUHS] more about Brian... X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Will Senn writes: [snip] >> I've done this and I've employed people who have done this. We're >> a dieing breed, the focus seems to be on programming languages and >> tools for idiots. People don't want to learn the discipline it takes >> to work with malloc()/free(). It's sad. > > I completely agree. This is ridiculous. Do modern programmer's seriously > think that the old code wasn't complex or robust? Sheesh, there's code > out there that has run through more millions of transactions an hour for > more years than most of these folks have been alive. There's also code > that's been running without any updates, for decades. Most code written > by the newbreed won't run for a month without surfacing dozens of bugs. > Margaret Hamilton would prolly have some choice words for these folks. This would appear to be a Not Unix conversation... but... So... the idea that code would run that long was not at all valued at my last job. The management found it simpler and better (for some definition of better) to just reinvent everything every 3 to 6 years. In the mean time, the languages used would change. The idea that one would "have to waste time" figuring out how to use malloc() and free() properly was not looked upon well when the development time would be better spend solving the needed higher level problems. In other words there literally was no interest in creating code that was going to be maintained for more than about 6 years and in a lot of cases would not be maintained more than 3 or even 1 year. To bring this back to Unix somewhat... When I started there, everything was a Solaris based private cloud (SmartOS by Joyent) running Java apps. In the 5 years I was there, the move was from Java to Go, due to the licensing changes that Oracle made to Java and then a move to containers. SmartOS has a container technology that is sort of like Docker, but since the majority of the containers in the world that people know about are fully Docker in some form with Linux it wasn't as compatible as required so SmartOS was dumped and everything was redone in Azure public cloud with Linux and as much of the native Azure stuff as they could stand to use. Make everything "green field" all of the time, or something.... I didn't really agree with much of this, but I became pretty mercenary as I got old and the place paid well. -- Brad Spencer - brad@anduin.eldar.org - KC8VKS - http://anduin.eldar.org