From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8693228D7B for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2024 01:15:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76983421AB; Thu, 11 Jul 2024 09:15:02 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuhs.org; s=dkim; t=1720653303; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-owner:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=yfAnrdTVhy6bbtuO0S+Tiv+UcHpfLvHtFPgFG3YXpjU=; b=PEM4+OBqaUD1IouWnaPlF4R1nNFJ1cMF/Uhov68IbzEtq1v6Q8BLH++JQi/DdKKWfFB2aC We+a4461XrgnZTVot7Ppv4kt3/6XsHMUKwAjDZ1LxUKp2Wljq0yIARm5WcEsIxRkBy+EPT jFLGpfy6Ty6GewQnl/E8CXfogAGCJtI= Received: from mail-4027.protonmail.ch (mail-4027.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.27]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2E73421AB for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2024 09:14:55 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1720653293; x=1720912493; bh=yfAnrdTVhy6bbtuO0S+Tiv+UcHpfLvHtFPgFG3YXpjU=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=o65Oyekf9b4HvrYAWAcyf+tjiAdYOE1Q/pyKZPasfbUubbHRDROgnsOayxljSv76w v829UHMfDmMbPQNSBOzLXxV30yOSRyxr02V0eeNZyaqdlpISEJ0XUDvAVTKdxdUEqY WchIOPjWGsRYlsi0mAJnN9wa+F4M/DTd6pEjF9EHnXTk7B08CUiR8tu6UeBzjgV5NM 9dH+a1Np9benyurkjLrJpAxTMrpsbOSGeZyBl5b3BNLjVbVE2hKhbD966u28/NiH5u clPz30rLdkhcdEQkZIiSVXTDyy/ggc4aueVd25dkKEETNBSaxcCF97oSto1oB5j9N5 Ez+PiB3TFIOZQ== Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2024 23:14:52 +0000 To: COFF Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20240710230010.D2D968F5DEE4@ary.qy> References: <20240710203422.284BA18C077@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <011a1e2a-6a73-ceaa-2b9c-9ca43daf41e7@bitsavers.org> <20240710230010.D2D968F5DEE4@ary.qy> Feedback-ID: 35591162:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: b6e0c1fc5d36200d9a153845f8fe93fa917d4cc7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: RDXO5PDJCM6ZKXIGQDCZVSPHHPFOEGJU X-Message-ID-Hash: RDXO5PDJCM6ZKXIGQDCZVSPHHPFOEGJU X-MailFrom: segaloco@protonmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: machine code translation,as mental architecture models List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: segaloco via TUHS Reply-To: segaloco On Wednesday, July 10th, 2024 at 4:00 PM, John Levine wro= te: > It appears that Al Kossow aek@bitsavers.org said: >=20 > > On 7/10/24 1:53 PM, Dan Cross wrote: > >=20 > > > The idea of writing simulators for machines clearly dates to before > > > (or near) the beginning of TAOCP. >=20 >=20 > Sure, but the topic of interest here is compiling machine code from one > machine to another. You know like Rosetta does for x86 code running on > my Macbook (obUnix: whose OS is descended from FreeBSD and Mach and does > all the Posix stuff) which has an M2 ARM chip. >=20 > We know that someone did it in 1967 from 709x to GE 635, which I agree > was quite a trick since really the only thing the two machines had in > common was a 36 bit word size. I was wondering if anyone did machine > code translation as opposed to instruction at a time simulation before th= at. >=20 Attempting once again to COFF this thread as I am quite interested in the discussion of this sort of emulation/simulation matter outside of the confines of UNIX history as well. To add to the discussion, while not satisfying the question of "where did this sort of thing begin", the 3B20 was another machine that provided some means of emulating another architecture via microcode, although what I know about this is limited to discussions about emulating earlier ESS machines to support existing telecom switching programs. I've yet to find any literature suggesting this was ever used to emulate other general-purpose computers such as IBM, DEC, etc. but likewise no suggestion that it *couldn= 't* be used this way. - Matt G.