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* [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
@ 2020-09-26 18:37 ericonr
  2020-09-26 18:43 ` hippi777
                   ` (18 more replies)
  0 siblings, 19 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: ericonr @ 2020-09-26 18:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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There is a new pull request by ericonr against master on the void-packages repository

https://github.com/ericonr/void-packages base
https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120

[RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
`base-system` already depends on `libmagic` and `ncurses-libs`, which means this only costs the 500K of the `nano` package, which installed is 2M.

It makes for a better user experience nearly for free, since there are often times when one needs to change file contents before they can even connect to the internet and install another editor (edit `/etc/resolv.conf` manually or some weird wireless setup). `nano` is easier to use and way simpler for someone who isn't used to command line stuff, and there are also users who simply prefer it over modal editing. Adding it here instead of as one of the packages used to build live systems makes sense because someone performing a netinstall would be caught by surprise after their netinstall resulted in a system without nano.

A patch file from https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120.patch is attached

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From e40525b34e1ce6f32b5126bf30cd81322f5fc463 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: =?UTF-8?q?=C3=89rico=20Rolim?= <erico.erc@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 15:32:37 -0300
Subject: [PATCH] base-system: add nano to dependencies.

---
 srcpkgs/base-system/template | 6 +++---
 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)

diff --git a/srcpkgs/base-system/template b/srcpkgs/base-system/template
index 810563c1bad..5d60d016da7 100644
--- a/srcpkgs/base-system/template
+++ b/srcpkgs/base-system/template
@@ -1,7 +1,7 @@
 # Template file for 'base-system'
 pkgname=base-system
-version=0.113
-revision=2
+version=0.114
+revision=1
 build_style=meta
 short_desc="Void Linux base system meta package"
 maintainer="Enno Boland <gottox@voidlinux.org>"
@@ -14,7 +14,7 @@ depends="
  mdocml>=1.13.3 shadow e2fsprogs btrfs-progs xfsprogs f2fs-tools dosfstools
  procps-ng tzdata pciutils usbutils iana-etc openssh dhcpcd
  kbd iproute2 iputils iw wpa_supplicant xbps nvi sudo wifi-firmware
- void-artwork traceroute ethtool kmod acpid eudev runit-void"
+ void-artwork traceroute ethtool kmod acpid eudev runit-void nano"
 
 case "$XBPS_TARGET_MACHINE" in
 	*-musl) depends+=" musl";;

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
@ 2020-09-26 18:43 ` hippi777
  2020-09-26 19:02 ` hippi777
                   ` (17 subsequent siblings)
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: hippi777 @ 2020-09-26 18:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by hippi777 on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-699533065

Comment:
hi there! :) 

i like the idea, but i would make both nano and nvi opinionated in this case. also, putting them next to each other would be a bit better imho :D

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
  2020-09-26 18:43 ` hippi777
@ 2020-09-26 19:02 ` hippi777
  2020-09-26 19:18 ` mobinmob
                   ` (16 subsequent siblings)
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: hippi777 @ 2020-09-26 19:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by hippi777 on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-699533065

Comment:
hi there! :) 

i like the idea, but i would make both nano and nvi opinionated in this case. also, putting them next to each other would be a bit better imho :D

edit:
maybe opinions arent even necessary as i know that its possible to blacklist packages that others would depend on, but i have no experience with that...

excluding both would give some ppl some inconvenient surprises, so thats not a good solution, while including only nano would make its fans sad, and i think most of the decision makers here would vote on nvi if they cant coexist...

i believe user experience is superior in this case over squeezing out some extra bits of space, and those who prefer the latter should go much further than this to actually achieve something worthy, and that path would already require leaving behind the comfortable defaults, while i think that including nano isnt that much of a big violation against the name, Void :D

(sorry for the long case-study, i think this may be a sensitive and divisive topic, so ive felt like it can be necessary :D )

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
  2020-09-26 18:43 ` hippi777
  2020-09-26 19:02 ` hippi777
@ 2020-09-26 19:18 ` mobinmob
  2020-09-26 19:21 ` mobinmob
                   ` (15 subsequent siblings)
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: mobinmob @ 2020-09-26 19:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by mobinmob on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-699537041

Comment:
> hi there! :)
> 
> i like the idea, but i would make both nano and nvi opinionated in this case. also, putting them next to each other would be a bit better imho :D
> 

nvi is already in base-system. My preference will be to have jupp in the base system instead of nano and aliase jpico το nano and jmacs το emacs :P

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-09-26 19:18 ` mobinmob
@ 2020-09-26 19:21 ` mobinmob
  2020-09-26 19:42 ` Anachron
                   ` (14 subsequent siblings)
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: mobinmob @ 2020-09-26 19:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by mobinmob on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-699537041

Comment:
Nano in the base system will be **really** nice.
> hi there! :)
> 
> i like the idea, but i would make both nano and nvi opinionated in this case. also, putting them next to each other would be a bit better imho :D
> 
nvi is already in base-system. My preference will be to have jupp in the base system instead of nano and aliase jpico το nano and jmacs το emacs :P

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
                   ` (3 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-09-26 19:21 ` mobinmob
@ 2020-09-26 19:42 ` Anachron
  2020-09-26 20:05 ` mobinmob
                   ` (13 subsequent siblings)
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: Anachron @ 2020-09-26 19:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by Anachron on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-699539544

Comment:
So should base-minimal be updated as well?

I dont really welcome this change. Afaik Void tries to keep the base packages small and functional. Adding just another base editor to ALL void installs seems a bit too much. (Especially since people here argue that nano is easier to use and Void has never targeted this audience before)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
                   ` (4 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-09-26 19:42 ` Anachron
@ 2020-09-26 20:05 ` mobinmob
  2020-09-26 20:24 ` ericonr
                   ` (12 subsequent siblings)
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: mobinmob @ 2020-09-26 20:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by mobinmob on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-699541891

Comment:
> So should base-minimal be updated as well?
> 

No, it should be minimal :D




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
                   ` (5 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-09-26 20:05 ` mobinmob
@ 2020-09-26 20:24 ` ericonr
  2020-09-26 20:24 ` ericonr
                   ` (11 subsequent siblings)
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: ericonr @ 2020-09-26 20:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by ericonr on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-699543888

Comment:
Another solution that's been flown about would be adding a `base-goodies` package instead.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
                   ` (6 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-09-26 20:24 ` ericonr
@ 2020-09-26 20:24 ` ericonr
  2020-09-26 20:30 ` hippi777
                   ` (10 subsequent siblings)
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: ericonr @ 2020-09-26 20:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by ericonr on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-699543888

Comment:
Another solution that's been flown about would be adding a `base-goodies` meta-package instead.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
                   ` (7 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-09-26 20:24 ` ericonr
@ 2020-09-26 20:30 ` hippi777
  2020-09-26 22:49 ` q66
                   ` (9 subsequent siblings)
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: hippi777 @ 2020-09-26 20:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by hippi777 on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-699544600

Comment:
what if only the images would come with both of them but not the base-system package would be "bloated"?

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
                   ` (8 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-09-26 20:30 ` hippi777
@ 2020-09-26 22:49 ` q66
  2020-09-26 22:50 ` q66
                   ` (8 subsequent siblings)
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: q66 @ 2020-09-26 22:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by q66 on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-699557891

Comment:
i think adding to `base-system` is fine

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
                   ` (9 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-09-26 22:49 ` q66
@ 2020-09-26 22:50 ` q66
  2020-10-30 22:46 ` ofiala-a51
                   ` (7 subsequent siblings)
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: q66 @ 2020-09-26 22:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by q66 on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-699557891

Comment:
i think adding to `base-system` is fine (`base-minimal` should stay as is, that's the point of it... being... minimal)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
                   ` (10 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-09-26 22:50 ` q66
@ 2020-10-30 22:46 ` ofiala-a51
  2020-10-30 22:48 ` ofiala-a51
                   ` (6 subsequent siblings)
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: ofiala-a51 @ 2020-10-30 22:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by ofiala-a51 on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-719832744

Comment:
I personally think using arguments like "`nano` is easier to use and way simpler **for someone who isn't used to command line stuff**" *(additional highlighting done by me)* for additions to base-system is not a direction that Void should take. There are already many other Linux distributions that are optimized for people who aren't used to command line stuff. Compared with many of the stuff new Void user has to deal with in order to get a fully functional system, `:wq` seems completely minor to me, and definitely doesn't justify this addition. Users who are not comfortable with vi can install nano the second their system is able to connect to the repos.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
                   ` (11 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-10-30 22:46 ` ofiala-a51
@ 2020-10-30 22:48 ` ofiala-a51
  2020-10-30 22:48 ` ofiala-a51
                   ` (5 subsequent siblings)
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: ofiala-a51 @ 2020-10-30 22:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by ofiala-a51 on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-719832744

Comment:
I personally think using arguments like "`nano` is easier to use and way simpler **for someone who isn't used to command line stuff**" (additional highlighting done by me) for additions to base-system is not a direction that Void should take. There are already many other Linux distributions that are optimized for people who aren't used to command line stuff. Compared with many of the things new Void user has to deal with in order to get a fully functional system, `:wq` seems completely minor to me, and definitely doesn't justify this addition. Users who are not comfortable with vi can install nano the second their system is able to connect to the repos.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
                   ` (12 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-10-30 22:48 ` ofiala-a51
@ 2020-10-30 22:48 ` ofiala-a51
  2020-10-30 23:04 ` pullmoll
                   ` (4 subsequent siblings)
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: ofiala-a51 @ 2020-10-30 22:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by ofiala-a51 on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-719832744

Comment:
I personally think using arguments like "`nano` is easier to use and way simpler **for someone who isn't used to command line stuff**" (additional highlighting done by me) for additions to base-system is not a direction that Void should take. There are already many other Linux distributions that are optimized for people who aren't used to command line stuff. Compared with many of the things new Void users have to deal with in order to get a fully functional system, `:wq` seems completely minor to me, and definitely doesn't justify this addition. Users who are not comfortable with vi can install nano the second their system is able to connect to the repos.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
                   ` (13 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-10-30 22:48 ` ofiala-a51
@ 2020-10-30 23:04 ` pullmoll
  2020-10-31 15:41 ` ericonr
                   ` (3 subsequent siblings)
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: pullmoll @ 2020-10-30 23:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by pullmoll on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-719837082

Comment:
Personally I don't like being faced with an editor like `nano` where no defaults are set and some script decides to use it w/o asking me (some distributions do that).

OTOH `nano` does not use too much precious space on an ISO or platform image and thus won't badly affect really low memory architectures.
Just please don't dare to put `EDITOR=nano` somewhere in the defaults of anything ;-P


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
                   ` (14 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-10-30 23:04 ` pullmoll
@ 2020-10-31 15:41 ` ericonr
  2020-12-30  7:09 ` the-maldridge
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: ericonr @ 2020-10-31 15:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by ericonr on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-719950639

Comment:
> Just please don't dare to put EDITOR=nano somewhere in the defaults of anything ;-P

Definitely won't :) The only point of this change would be to be able to point people at an editor other than `nvi` being installed that's easier to use.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
                   ` (15 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-10-31 15:41 ` ericonr
@ 2020-12-30  7:09 ` the-maldridge
  2021-02-03  4:56 ` ericonr
  2021-02-03  4:56 ` [PR PATCH] [Closed]: " ericonr
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: the-maldridge @ 2020-12-30  7:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by the-maldridge on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-752354371

Comment:
I am opposed to this change as you don't need to edit resolv.conf on a correctly functioning network, and on an incorrectly functioning one you can echo into the file.  Similarly connecting to wifi is best done with wpa_cli on a base system, not editing the file.

Once you have networking you can install any package you want, and I don't see a good reason to eat the disk space from every void user for  an argument that doesn't hold up when inspected closely.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
                   ` (16 preceding siblings ...)
  2020-12-30  7:09 ` the-maldridge
@ 2021-02-03  4:56 ` ericonr
  2021-02-03  4:56 ` [PR PATCH] [Closed]: " ericonr
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: ericonr @ 2021-02-03  4:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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New comment by ericonr on void-packages repository

https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120#issuecomment-772228096

Comment:
Closing this as I don't believe it has gained enough traction. `jupp` has also been suggested. Someone else feel free to take it up :P

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

* Re: [PR PATCH] [Closed]: [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
  2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
                   ` (17 preceding siblings ...)
  2021-02-03  4:56 ` ericonr
@ 2021-02-03  4:56 ` ericonr
  18 siblings, 0 replies; 20+ messages in thread
From: ericonr @ 2021-02-03  4:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ml

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There's a closed pull request on the void-packages repository

[RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies.
https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/pull/25120

Description:
`base-system` already depends on `libmagic` and `ncurses-libs`, which means this only costs the 500K of the `nano` package, which installed is 2M.

It makes for a better user experience nearly for free, since there are often times when one needs to change file contents before they can even connect to the internet and install another editor (edit `/etc/resolv.conf` manually or some weird wireless setup). `nano` is easier to use and way simpler for someone who isn't used to command line stuff, and there are also users who simply prefer it over modal editing. Adding it here instead of as one of the packages used to build live systems makes sense because someone performing a netinstall would be caught by surprise after their netinstall resulted in a system without nano.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 20+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-02-03  4:56 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 20+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-09-26 18:37 [PR PATCH] [RFC] base-system: add nano to dependencies ericonr
2020-09-26 18:43 ` hippi777
2020-09-26 19:02 ` hippi777
2020-09-26 19:18 ` mobinmob
2020-09-26 19:21 ` mobinmob
2020-09-26 19:42 ` Anachron
2020-09-26 20:05 ` mobinmob
2020-09-26 20:24 ` ericonr
2020-09-26 20:24 ` ericonr
2020-09-26 20:30 ` hippi777
2020-09-26 22:49 ` q66
2020-09-26 22:50 ` q66
2020-10-30 22:46 ` ofiala-a51
2020-10-30 22:48 ` ofiala-a51
2020-10-30 22:48 ` ofiala-a51
2020-10-30 23:04 ` pullmoll
2020-10-31 15:41 ` ericonr
2020-12-30  7:09 ` the-maldridge
2021-02-03  4:56 ` ericonr
2021-02-03  4:56 ` [PR PATCH] [Closed]: " ericonr

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