* Re: Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment?
2015-01-22 14:58 Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment? Antonio Malcolm
@ 2015-01-22 15:07 ` Christian Neukirchen
2015-01-22 15:09 ` Enno Boland
` (9 subsequent siblings)
10 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Christian Neukirchen @ 2015-01-22 15:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Antonio Malcolm; +Cc: void...
Antonio Malcolm <antonio...@gmail.com> writes:
> Adding dbus and gdm to DAEMONS=() in /etc/rc.conf results in booting to a
> command line prompt, only to see an "Error in module" message after
> authenticating.
> Adding them to /etc/rc.conf via enable_dbus="YES" and enable_gdm="YES"
> does nothing.
Please read https://github.com/voidlinux/documentation/wiki/runit on
how to start daemons in void.
--
Christian Neukirchen <chneuk...@gmail.com> http://chneukirchen.org
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment?
2015-01-22 14:58 Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment? Antonio Malcolm
2015-01-22 15:07 ` Christian Neukirchen
@ 2015-01-22 15:09 ` Enno Boland
2015-01-22 18:35 ` Antonio Malcolm
` (8 subsequent siblings)
10 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Enno Boland @ 2015-01-22 15:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: voidlinux
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https://github.com/voidlinux/documentation/wiki/runit
Am Donnerstag, 22. Januar 2015 15:58:54 UTC+1 schrieb Antonio Malcolm:
>
> Currently, I'm attempting to roll a gdm + cinnamon DE, and have the
> packages installed, but configuration is going less than stellar.
> Adding the entries to /etc/rc.conf doesn't seem to do much good, as I
> can't launch gdm.
> Xorg is installed, and I can start that just fine.
>
> Adding dbus and gdm to DAEMONS=() in /etc/rc.conf results in booting to a
> command line prompt, only to see an "Error in module" message after
> authenticating.
> Adding them to /etc/rc.conf via enable_dbus="YES" and enable_gdm="YES"
> does nothing.
>
> Most of the current documentation from a Google search results in
> countless references to installing with systemd, but I'm trying to avoid
> systemd.
> (That said, it's tempting, because it looks easier.)
>
>
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* Re: Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment?
2015-01-22 14:58 Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment? Antonio Malcolm
2015-01-22 15:07 ` Christian Neukirchen
2015-01-22 15:09 ` Enno Boland
@ 2015-01-22 18:35 ` Antonio Malcolm
2015-01-22 21:02 ` Logen Kain
2015-01-23 3:04 ` Antonio Malcolm
` (7 subsequent siblings)
10 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Antonio Malcolm @ 2015-01-22 18:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: voidlinux
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Ok, will give symlinking for runit a go...
Though, it doesn't quite explain why adding mdadm as a daemon to rc.conf is
working for me, currently, per the wiki I just added:
https://github.com/voidlinux/documentation/wiki/Installing-On-UEFI-with-BIOS-RAID-%28FakeRAID%29
However, if symlinking is the proper method, I'll give that a go later
today, and update the wiki page, accordingly.
Thanks, much! Liking Void, very much, so far!
>
>
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* Re: Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment?
2015-01-22 14:58 Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment? Antonio Malcolm
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2015-01-22 18:35 ` Antonio Malcolm
@ 2015-01-23 3:04 ` Antonio Malcolm
2015-01-23 3:19 ` Logen Kain
2015-01-23 16:08 ` Antonio Malcolm
` (6 subsequent siblings)
10 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Antonio Malcolm @ 2015-01-23 3:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: voidlinux
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WELL, that certainly worked.
It was fun, listening to the speakers pop a bit when adding the symlink for
ALSA, and the wireless LED indicator light up, for NetworkManager.
Thanks, all!
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* Re: Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment?
2015-01-22 14:58 Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment? Antonio Malcolm
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2015-01-23 3:04 ` Antonio Malcolm
@ 2015-01-23 16:08 ` Antonio Malcolm
2015-01-24 8:27 ` Antonio Malcolm
` (5 subsequent siblings)
10 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Antonio Malcolm @ 2015-01-23 16:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: voidlinux
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Ok, got lightdm and cinnamon up and running (gdm was a pain in the arse-
lightdm was much more compliant).
As this requires some additional packages and finagling, I'll likely add
another wiki.
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* Re: Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment?
2015-01-22 14:58 Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment? Antonio Malcolm
` (4 preceding siblings ...)
2015-01-23 16:08 ` Antonio Malcolm
@ 2015-01-24 8:27 ` Antonio Malcolm
2015-01-27 1:43 ` Logen Kain
2015-01-29 0:55 ` Antonio Malcolm
` (4 subsequent siblings)
10 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Antonio Malcolm @ 2015-01-24 8:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: voidlinux
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OK< I've hit another issue, and can't seem to find a decent answer when
searching:
In Cinnamon, applets won't launch from the menu, and when I run:
$ cinnamon-settings
I'm greeted with:
$ python: undefined symbol: pam_start
I can confirm both Python and PAM are installed on this machine, as well as
python-pam.
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* Re: Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment?
2015-01-24 8:27 ` Antonio Malcolm
@ 2015-01-27 1:43 ` Logen Kain
2015-01-27 1:52 ` Logen Kain
0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Logen Kain @ 2015-01-27 1:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: voidlinux
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On Saturday, January 24, 2015 at 2:27:59 AM UTC-6, Antonio Malcolm wrote:
>
> OK< I've hit another issue, and can't seem to find a decent answer when
> searching:
>
> In Cinnamon, applets won't launch from the menu, and when I run:
>
> $ cinnamon-settings
>
> I'm greeted with:
>
> $ python: undefined symbol: pam_start
>
> I can confirm both Python and PAM are installed on this machine, as well
> as python-pam.
>
So I was just sitting in MATE when I read this and installed cinnamon "sudo
xbps-install -S cinnamon"
Log out into lxdm
Logged into it via lxdm.
click menu > gedit
It worked.
lxdm seems to just work with whatever I install and no setup, perhaps
that'll help. And for reference my /var/services
agetty-tty[1-6], alsa, dbus, dhcpcd, lxdm, ntpd.
I'll try with light-dm and will report back.
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* Re: Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment?
2015-01-27 1:43 ` Logen Kain
@ 2015-01-27 1:52 ` Logen Kain
2015-01-27 1:57 ` Logen Kain
0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Logen Kain @ 2015-01-27 1:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: voidlinux
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I installed lightdm along with the gtk3 greeter.
Upon trying to start cinnamon it failed, however it did work in *Software
Rendering* mode.
Gedit still opened from the menu.
Running cinnamon-settings seems to have worked.
python-pam is installed for me as well, the 2.x version NOT the 3.4 version.
pam, pam-base, pam-libs as well.
Perhaps try to reinstall the pam packages? I'm sorry, but I really have no
idea what else it could be and I can't seem to replicate your issue on my
machine. My machine is also far from fresh.
If you can replicate the issue on a fresh install, I'd be happy to try it
myself. I should be getting a Lenovo T420 in a couple days, I'll probably
want to install void anyway. If I remember I'll try to test it out then as
well.
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* Re: Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment?
2015-01-22 14:58 Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment? Antonio Malcolm
` (5 preceding siblings ...)
2015-01-24 8:27 ` Antonio Malcolm
@ 2015-01-29 0:55 ` Antonio Malcolm
2015-02-02 21:35 ` Antonio Malcolm
` (3 subsequent siblings)
10 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Antonio Malcolm @ 2015-01-29 0:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: voidlinux
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Sorry to get back to this so late, but, yes, it's been fixed- everything
but cinnamon-settings worked, for me, out-of-the-box, and, after the
python-pam fix, cinnamon-settings worked fine, too.
Getting lightdm, with the gtk greeter, and cinnamon up and going was easy
enough.
Thanks!
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment?
2015-01-22 14:58 Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment? Antonio Malcolm
` (6 preceding siblings ...)
2015-01-29 0:55 ` Antonio Malcolm
@ 2015-02-02 21:35 ` Antonio Malcolm
2015-02-03 9:46 ` Logen Kain
2015-02-04 0:38 ` Antonio Malcolm
` (2 subsequent siblings)
10 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Antonio Malcolm @ 2015-02-02 21:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: voidlinux
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Well, ok, an update: Cinnamon breaks BADLY with the most recent Nvidia
drivers. Add to that, it does irritating things, with either overriding
some Xorg settings, and (at least the HOW of) its use of Xorg settings in
its own settings (I had lots of fun getting my trackpad to work
predictably). Solutions, from around the web, for solving the Cinnamon +
Nvidia debacle, range from such magic, as install bumblebee, and *MAGIC*,
cinnamon will suddenly work, to reinstalling Nvidia drivers, from the
Nvidia website and *MAGIC*, Cinnamon will suddenly work, to reinstalling
your entire Linux setup and *MAGIC*, everything will just work. Yeah, no
thanks.
Anyhow, I've ended up happily chugging along with a
lightdm+openbox+compton+thunar stack. Quite happily.
Add tint2 and kupfer to the equation, and it's a golden setup, which
behaves just as expected- as configured.
When you're going to set things via config files, anyhow, you may as well
go all the way, and go with the solution which operates almost solely
according to those configs, without adding so much cruft atop them.
Lessons learned!
The only two bits of cruft, in my current setup are obconf and
lxappearance, as they do make setting the general "look and feel" stuffs
easier. And lightdm appears to work easily with whatever you put behind it.
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* Re: Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment?
2015-01-22 14:58 Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment? Antonio Malcolm
` (7 preceding siblings ...)
2015-02-02 21:35 ` Antonio Malcolm
@ 2015-02-04 0:38 ` Antonio Malcolm
2015-02-05 10:39 ` Logen Kain
2015-02-04 7:47 ` Stefan Mühlinghaus
2015-02-04 18:34 ` Antonio Malcolm
10 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Antonio Malcolm @ 2015-02-04 0:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: voidlinux
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That's odd- I've always experienced the opposite, ie: the proprietary
Nvidia driver has typically worked for me, and the open source Nouveau
driver has typically given me issues.
Also, I've always needed to do some finagling to get ATI drivers to work,
but that's likely because I've typically installed my Linux rollouts on
Apple laptops, and dealing with their combination of GMUX hardware/GPU
hardware configuration and non-standard UEFI implemenation is a pain in the
arse, and has required rolling a kernel (of course, it didn't help that I
was running Debian, which uses an older kernel), and telling it where to
find the Radeon BIOS. Add to that, on my 2011 MBP, vgaswitcheroo works, but
something in the way MBP-specific GPU switching in the kernel extensions is
written (and the code, written by some guys at Red Hat, looks like it was
written a decade ago) causes the Radeon to crap out during subsequent
power-cycling (works the first time, not on additional tries), so I ended
up writing my own user-space utility for handling that.
From what I understand, the proprietary Nvidia drivers are better,
especially performance-wise, than the proprietary ATI drivers, and, from
dealing with both, I feel like Nvidia provide much more love to the Linux
community than ATI. This may be partly because a lot of high-end animation
and rendering workstations use Nvidia workstation-class GPUs for their
crunching, and much of that software is either Linux-native, or comes with
a Linux version (Maya immediately comes to mind), and Linux is used fairly
often in those scenarios. Admittedly, that's a bit of speculation, on my
part, but it's based on honest observation (I know folks in those
industries, so I have that as a starting point, at least).
Anyhow, GPU support is one of the biggest pains in the arse I deal with
during a Linux install.
However, there are definitely the other reasons I gave up on Cinnamon and
went with Openbox and Compton. That Cinnamon overrides certain Xorg
configs, and absorbs others in odd ways is the biggest. Conflicting with
the GPU driver was sort of the last straw.
I was using Linux as a server/hosting OS, mostly, and OS X as my *Nix-based
desktop. I got tired of the bloat and half-baked features, which, over the
last few revisions have stepped on my feet more and more and more.
I want lean, I want out-of-my-way. I find KDE to be incredibly bloated, and
both KDE and XFCE have wayyy too many settings panes/apps for my taste.
Most of that is stuff I'd typically set in a config file somewhere, and
touch maybe once in a blue moon- i.e., I don't really need a GUI for most
of it. I don't particularly care for the look and feel of either LXDE or
MATE, and I'll stay away from GNOME for the same reasons I dropped Cinnamon.
My current Openbox stack is doing a great job. It's easy enough to theme it
the way I want, with lxappearance-obconf and the standard config files. It
simply obeys those, it's lean, it's reliable, and it performs well.
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* Re: Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment?
2015-02-04 0:38 ` Antonio Malcolm
@ 2015-02-05 10:39 ` Logen Kain
2015-02-09 18:56 ` Antonio Malcolm
0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Logen Kain @ 2015-02-05 10:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: voidlinux
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AMD seems to be doing something to make their support better for newer
cards. Something about an opensource thing they'll add to the kernel, and
their drivers will talk to that. Hopefully fixing most of the issues
they've had over the years.
Their cards do typically take more effort to get to work, but when they
work, everything works. My nvidia card? Everytime I boot, after I finally
got brightness control to work at all, it is set at full blast. There are
various settings in the settings menu that doesn't seem to be set unless
you open the settings menu. By the way, I'm running an AMD card in my
desktop... VoidLinux does an awesome job. First distro it "just worked" and
has kept working, without me fighting with it.
But yes, back in the day, they both sucked but Nvidia typiclaly worked.
Now both of them work, but you have to try if you want everything working
well.
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 6:38:08 PM UTC-6, Antonio Malcolm wrote:
>
> That's odd- I've always experienced the opposite, ie: the proprietary
> Nvidia driver has typically worked for me, and the open source Nouveau
> driver has typically given me issues.
> Also, I've always needed to do some finagling to get ATI drivers to work,
> but that's likely because I've typically installed my Linux rollouts on
> Apple laptops, and dealing with their combination of GMUX hardware/GPU
> hardware configuration and non-standard UEFI implemenation is a pain in the
> arse, and has required rolling a kernel (of course, it didn't help that I
> was running Debian, which uses an older kernel), and telling it where to
> find the Radeon BIOS. Add to that, on my 2011 MBP, vgaswitcheroo works, but
> something in the way MBP-specific GPU switching in the kernel extensions is
> written (and the code, written by some guys at Red Hat, looks like it was
> written a decade ago) causes the Radeon to crap out during subsequent
> power-cycling (works the first time, not on additional tries), so I ended
> up writing my own user-space utility for handling that.
>
> From what I understand, the proprietary Nvidia drivers are better,
> especially performance-wise, than the proprietary ATI drivers, and, from
> dealing with both, I feel like Nvidia provide much more love to the Linux
> community than ATI. This may be partly because a lot of high-end animation
> and rendering workstations use Nvidia workstation-class GPUs for their
> crunching, and much of that software is either Linux-native, or comes with
> a Linux version (Maya immediately comes to mind), and Linux is used fairly
> often in those scenarios. Admittedly, that's a bit of speculation, on my
> part, but it's based on honest observation (I know folks in those
> industries, so I have that as a starting point, at least).
>
> Anyhow, GPU support is one of the biggest pains in the arse I deal with
> during a Linux install.
> However, there are definitely the other reasons I gave up on Cinnamon and
> went with Openbox and Compton. That Cinnamon overrides certain Xorg
> configs, and absorbs others in odd ways is the biggest. Conflicting with
> the GPU driver was sort of the last straw.
>
> I was using Linux as a server/hosting OS, mostly, and OS X as my
> *Nix-based desktop. I got tired of the bloat and half-baked features,
> which, over the last few revisions have stepped on my feet more and more
> and more.
> I want lean, I want out-of-my-way. I find KDE to be incredibly bloated,
> and both KDE and XFCE have wayyy too many settings panes/apps for my taste.
> Most of that is stuff I'd typically set in a config file somewhere, and
> touch maybe once in a blue moon- i.e., I don't really need a GUI for most
> of it. I don't particularly care for the look and feel of either LXDE or
> MATE, and I'll stay away from GNOME for the same reasons I dropped Cinnamon.
> My current Openbox stack is doing a great job. It's easy enough to theme
> it the way I want, with lxappearance-obconf and the standard config files.
> It simply obeys those, it's lean, it's reliable, and it performs well.
>
>
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* Re: Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment?
2015-02-05 10:39 ` Logen Kain
@ 2015-02-09 18:56 ` Antonio Malcolm
2015-02-11 9:06 ` Logen Kain
0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Antonio Malcolm @ 2015-02-09 18:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: voidlinux
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Yeah, my biggest gripe, setting up Nvidia, now, is that Nvidia's OpenGL
drivers overwrite Intel's OpenGL drivers, meaning if you have dual GPU's,
you get no OpenGL acceleration on the integrated (Intel) GPU.
Currently, I'm tinkering with using Nvidia's installer to install their
drivers to another directory, and point to them in an xorg conf file
specific to Optimus settings. Using their kernel module seems to break
xorg's server in Void, though (which makes it unusable- the screen flashes,
and there's no way to get to the CLI), so my next attempt is to use their
drivers with Void's nvidia-dkms package. Other wise, between xorg conf
files specific to each GPU, and lightdm's conf, I'm able to switch between
an Optimus setup and an Intel standalone setup. I should be able to get
this working, it's just going to take some trial and error. This is on an
Aorus X3+.
And getting either AMD or Nvidia, with dual graphics, on the MacBook Pro,
is ALWAYS a pain in the arse, but that has nothing to do with either AMD or
Nvidia, and everything to do with Apple. In any case, GPU setup in Linux is
typically work, and more work than getting other things configured (save
for, maybe, trackpads, sometimes).
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* Re: Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment?
2015-02-09 18:56 ` Antonio Malcolm
@ 2015-02-11 9:06 ` Logen Kain
2015-02-11 20:36 ` Antonio Malcolm
0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread
From: Logen Kain @ 2015-02-11 9:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: voidlinux
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In my case I have a thinkpad t420 (not sure if I've mentioned this already)
with the optional Nvidia card. The hd3000 runs cooler and seems to do
everything I want it to almost as well as the Nvidia. So I just use the
Intel.
Overwriting the OpenGL drivers is a new thing? That seems like odd
timing... now that Intell gpu's are finally capable of something other than
MSpaint.
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* Re: Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment?
2015-02-11 9:06 ` Logen Kain
@ 2015-02-11 20:36 ` Antonio Malcolm
0 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Antonio Malcolm @ 2015-02-11 20:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: voidlinux
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Ah, no, it's not new. The proprietary Nvidia installer (and, by extension,
the distro-specific installers), overwrite the Intel/Xorg *glx and *GL
drivers, in additiona to some others (I think, also the Mesa Intel DRI
stuffs- but don't quite me, on that).
So far, my attempts to abstract Nvidia's drivers has only borked things, as
the Nvidia install does more than simply install the drivers; there's a
lot, there, in general, so it becomes a time-sink, tracking it all and
performing what is, essentially, dependency-surgery. So, I'm going to
attempt the opposite, and copy the Intel-specific stuffs, which are more
manageable, and easier to fix, if something breaks, to an /intel directory
inside of /usr/lib/xorg, add the module paths to an Intel-specific Xorg
config, and install the Nvidia packages in the usual way. We'll see how
that goes...
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* Re: Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment?
2015-01-22 14:58 Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment? Antonio Malcolm
` (8 preceding siblings ...)
2015-02-04 0:38 ` Antonio Malcolm
@ 2015-02-04 7:47 ` Stefan Mühlinghaus
2015-02-04 18:34 ` Antonio Malcolm
10 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Mühlinghaus @ 2015-02-04 7:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: voidlinux
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I absolutely agree. I used OS X for a while and was quite happy with it.
But then it seemd to just get worse (and slower!) with every new iteration
and all the programs started to depend on the new OS versions. Thats where
I jumped off and used linux fulltime.
Now I'm running a very barebones setup. Login via the console, Xorg via
startx and in it a tiny, tiling windowmananger called Xoat. I do most stuff
like configuration or editing on the shell and it works great for me. But I
know that kind of setup is not everyones cup of tea :)
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* Re: Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment?
2015-01-22 14:58 Decent Starting Point For Rolling A Desktop Environment? Antonio Malcolm
` (9 preceding siblings ...)
2015-02-04 7:47 ` Stefan Mühlinghaus
@ 2015-02-04 18:34 ` Antonio Malcolm
10 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread
From: Antonio Malcolm @ 2015-02-04 18:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: voidlinux
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Indeed. I find that most of the stuff I'm configuring from the console
(usually via vi or nano), I don't touch that often. It's, mostly, a
set-and-forget affair.
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