From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: joe@solidadmin.com Received: from krantz.zx2c4.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krantz.zx2c4.com (ZX2C4 Mail Server) with ESMTP id f0ba9f1d for ; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 16:37:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from conquer.yellowcord.com (conquer.yellowcord.com [45.55.224.114]) by krantz.zx2c4.com (ZX2C4 Mail Server) with ESMTP id 3cd1fa8e for ; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 16:37:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Dealing with list volume To: "Jason A. Donenfeld" References: <1463e6b8-2aff-b5f6-4375-dbce686f66c2@solidadmin.com> From: Joe Doss Message-ID: <7e4be8a2-a4d1-3a65-6c5a-d51aaaccb279@solidadmin.com> Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 10:44:41 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Cc: WireGuard mailing list List-Id: Development discussion of WireGuard List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi Jason, On 12/07/2017 08:33 PM, Jason A. Donenfeld wrote: > That's what IRC is for, I think. #wireguard is where people should go > to chat usually. > > Thanks for your offer to host something, but I've got more than enough > stable infrastructure for hosting new gadgets, as they occur to us. > I'm also very hesitant toward introducing a new platform, when IRC > should cut it. Right, it should cut it but it's becoming obvious that it's not. Here are a few points. * I have seen comments in IRC that are trying to help new users wishing the new user with problem X would just stick around in the chat so they can get the help. * There are no methods to search or to keep record of chat from IRC, so we are seeing the same questions over and over again. That a lot of wasted cycles. * IRC is a barrier for some users. They didn't grow up with it, they don't understand how to use it. This turns them to the mailing list. Everyone uses Email. Some people use IRC. * Email is search-able on the list but you are pushing users to IRC because the volume is too great. Even then it's not the easiest UI to find answers to your questions or to build a user community. * Large FOSS projects like Fedora have every support channel avail. IRC (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/IRC), Mailing Lists (https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/), GitHub Clone (https://pagure.io/), Forums (https://fedoraforum.org/), Ask Fedora (https://ask.fedoraproject.org/en/questions/) and they don't say well X should be good enough. They let the user pick the channel that works best for them to find help. I get that for you IRC should fit the bill for supporting the user base and it's the support work flow that works for _you_ the best. I am the same. I RTFM, read online documentation, sludge through the mailing list a bit and then I hit up IRC when all else fails. That is the support work flow that works for _me_, but not everyone is like that. If we give the users a painless way to get the answers they need, and and a painless way to communicate with other users, most will self-help themselves and each other. Email or IRC are great for small projects but as you can see now, we are having some growing pains with the influx of new users. At some point, the project is going to get too big and you won't be able to firefight every support case that comes in. Are were at that point yet? Well this thread got created so you must feel we are close. Discourse helps fix most of the problems above. It is the _best_ forum software I have used to date and I highly urge you to consider using it to help us create a community for every type of user, technical to layman. Here are some very successful projects using it: https://discuss.elastic.co/ https://forum.sublimetext.com/ https://forums.meteor.com https://talk.jekyllrb.com https://discuss.gohugo.io https://forum.ionicframework.com https://discuss.kotlinlang.org https://forum.golangbridge.org https://users.rust-lang.org https://internals.rust-lang.org WireGuard is a stupid easy VPN solution to setup compared to the competition. It's support channels and user community center should be stupid easy too. Joe -- Joe Doss joe@solidadmin.com