* Re: Wanted: Novice Guides
2017-02-15 14:53 ` Daniel Kahn Gillmor
@ 2017-02-15 15:49 ` Paul Pietkiewicz
2017-02-17 13:45 ` Jason A. Donenfeld
1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Paul Pietkiewicz @ 2017-02-15 15:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor; +Cc: WireGuard mailing list
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I think it would be brilliant to see an guide setting up a server on a
OpenWRT router, and then setting up a Mac laptop as a roaming client that
could connect to the network as required. Unfortunately I do not have much
time to help with this, but I believe that this would be a very common use
case.
Cheers,
Paul
On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:53 AM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
wrote:
> Hi all--
>
> On Wed 2017-02-15 09:05:29 -0500, Jason A. Donenfeld wrote:
> > As WireGuard gets more and more popular, I have more people contacting
> > me about novice guides and blog entries and step by step things. If
> > anybody would be up for writing these or assisting with it, it would
> > be much appreciated. Probably better to tackle this before horribly
> > written guides with bad advice fill the void instead.
>
> Agreed about wanting better-written guides to pre-empt terrible ones :)
>
> A good "novice guide" usually has the following pattern:
>
> a) Present the specific goal of the guide at a high level (if you think
> want X, this is the guide for you) -- the goal should not be
> "install WireGuard", which is meaningless to a novice, but something
> like one of the following:
>
> * have two machines establish a secure connection between each other
> across the public Internet
>
> * give my laptop an IP address on my home network no matter where I am
>
> * allow co-workers to access office resources from the road
>
> * run a "virtual office" offering secure connections between the
> computers of multiple co-workers who are scattered and have no
> central physical location
>
> * operate a public-facing encrypted Internet proxy service
> (a.k.a. "VPN provider")
>
> b) Present frequently-confused *non* use cases (if you think you want
> these other things, this is not your guide)
>
> c) Document assumed platform details (if your examples are only known to
> work on Ubuntu 16.10, say so!)
>
> d) Document steps to take to achieve the goal (these should be very
> simple. If it's more than 5 steps, the tools or the platform should
> probably be improved)
>
> e) Diagnostics, troubleshooting and debugging (again, should be
> relatively minimal, but should include at least how to check that
> things are working, what you might see if they're not working, and
> recovery from common failure modes)
>
> f) Outbound links to learn more (this should include suggestions about
> where to file bug reports, and how to follow up on this mailing list)
>
>
> choosing (a) and (c) carefully are kind of critical for even knowing
> where to begin if you want to write such a guide for novices.
>
> Those of us who are not novices understand that tools like WireGuard can
> be used on a lot of different platforms (c) to perform a lot of
> different tasks (a), but how those tasks are carried out might have more
> to do with policy details (where do you get the peer's public keys from?
> how do you verify that they're the right public keys? How do peers find
> each other if there are no stable public IP addresses? How do you
> allocate IP addresses for the wg interfaces? Which traffic should each
> peer route over which wg interfaces?) than with WireGuard itself.
>
> The fact that the WireGuard-specific instructions for any such guide are
> likely to be minimal is one of the strengths of WireGuard, i think. But
> that also means that any novice guide is going to be at least as much
> about non-WireGuard details as it is about WireGuard itself.
>
> Jason, what kinds of novice guides are people asking for? What kinds of
> guides are people on this list interested in writing?
>
> --dkg
>
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> https://lists.zx2c4.com/mailman/listinfo/wireguard
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Wanted: Novice Guides
2017-02-15 14:53 ` Daniel Kahn Gillmor
2017-02-15 15:49 ` Paul Pietkiewicz
@ 2017-02-17 13:45 ` Jason A. Donenfeld
1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Jason A. Donenfeld @ 2017-02-17 13:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor; +Cc: WireGuard mailing list
Hi Daniel,
On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor
<dkg@fifthhorseman.net> wrote:
> A good "novice guide" usually has the following pattern:
This is a nice list of suggestions on how to structure guides. Thanks for that.
> Those of us who are not novices understand that tools like WireGuard can
> be used on a lot of different platforms (c) to perform a lot of
> different tasks (a), but how those tasks are carried out might have more
> to do with policy details (where do you get the peer's public keys from?
> how do you verify that they're the right public keys? How do peers find
> each other if there are no stable public IP addresses? How do you
> allocate IP addresses for the wg interfaces? Which traffic should each
> peer route over which wg interfaces?) than with WireGuard itself.
Right. The concepts are simple, and simplify a lot of the things
WireGuard is supposed to replace, but they're still somewhat new
concepts. That means there's going to need to be explanations and
diagrams and good solid descriptions for people who don't even know
the prior concepts.
> The fact that the WireGuard-specific instructions for any such guide are
> likely to be minimal is one of the strengths of WireGuard, i think. But
> that also means that any novice guide is going to be at least as much
> about non-WireGuard details as it is about WireGuard itself.
Right. This also raises the question of the role of WireGuard in
general. It's being designed as sort of a fundumental basic build
block, on which other tools and simple bash scripts should be built.
How much should I build those larger things? (Such as wg-quick.) How
much should I wait for others to integrate this into existing
utilities (such as NetworkManager or systemd-networkd)? How much
should other people simply build new tools ontop of the WireGuard
core? I suspect the answer is: all of those things all at once, and
then we'll have a flourishing ecosystem. This, though, makes the focus
of beginner guides non obvious.
>
> Jason, what kinds of novice guides are people asking for?
"How do I set up my laptop with my server?" "How do I set up my laptop
with my home router?" "How do I put it on a RasPi at home and connect
to it from the Internet with my laptop?" "How do I hook all my servers
together with it?" "What's the difference between a tunnel IP address
and an endpoint?" "What do I put in AllowedIPs and what do I put as
the interface IP and what's the difference?" "What's the difference
between AllowedIPs and the normal routing table?" etc etc
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread