From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71B11C433FE for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2021 23:35:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.zx2c4.com (lists.zx2c4.com [165.227.139.114]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91FE461374 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2021 23:35:54 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.1 mail.kernel.org 91FE461374 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=zx2c4.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lists.zx2c4.com Received: by lists.zx2c4.com (ZX2C4 Mail Server) with ESMTP id 7b629194; Thu, 7 Oct 2021 23:35:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by lists.zx2c4.com (ZX2C4 Mail Server) with ESMTPS id a42eff35 (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO) for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2021 23:35:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 629E461381 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2021 23:35:49 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=zx2c4.com header.i=@zx2c4.com header.b="RUzdsbYa" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zx2c4.com; s=20210105; t=1633649746; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=jSFXdb3dCEV/+otUCcWhxrbJx0O/xk3ksXelWc8GCHA=; b=RUzdsbYa/kU2nCMqNszqFy+8cF2tgW0eLhg1MTPVa3Ywf5Vv5J83kllLuFUAnKu/NejsQc G6//91butDI0XEjU1OamZav9CtcavLGVEfKUKJKdgpogU/f6r03M+hJ8XaPza6zfVBFHDW R6jYnNAnSj93Xz9H3DQcp6SynbTdW34= Received: by mail.zx2c4.com (ZX2C4 Mail Server) with ESMTPSA id c05702fd (TLSv1.3:AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO) for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2021 23:35:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yb1-f173.google.com with SMTP id v195so17208167ybb.0 for ; Thu, 07 Oct 2021 16:35:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5301DH1zZwh1RoA70qWy1tMTqFYL1tpYykwccFNLI6Xxmod7qUjU gjNcqPvrfnpIsa576DEfl55JtJ+Kd/KfxYfgpH0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxGOaPqdmXnMKteeXPYCYoYHQy0fRwkT370hL6PpT2zDsVJI0toiBC97KTBOOWRCAG7Y59+cGuMIaAezlq8Kgg= X-Received: by 2002:a25:bd03:: with SMTP id f3mr7719479ybk.412.1633649744563; Thu, 07 Oct 2021 16:35:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201112090313.GB3500@trivini.no> In-Reply-To: From: "Jason A. Donenfeld" Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2021 17:35:33 -0600 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Should we sunset Windows 7 support? To: WireGuard mailing list Cc: Jeffrey Walton , =?UTF-8?Q?Berge_Schwebs_Bj=C3=B8rlo?= , Laslo Hunhold , Panagiotis Kalogiratos , Neal Gompa , Phillip McMahon , Roman Mamedov , Reiner Karlsberg , samuel.progin@gmail.com, paul.montgomery@netprotect.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: wireguard@lists.zx2c4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.30rc1 Precedence: list List-Id: Development discussion of WireGuard List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: wireguard-bounces@lists.zx2c4.com Sender: "WireGuard" Hey again, About a year later, WireGuard on Windows keeps becoming more advanced and integrated into the operating system, with better service notifications, high speed multi-packet transmission, device arrival notifications, software device management, and so on... the common theme being that these are all made possible by Windows 8+ APIs. So we're now carrying well over 1000 lines of Windows 7 compatibility code, polyfills, and sometimes outright reimplementations. This is nobody's idea of fun, and having lots of extra code (that receives less and less testing) is usually a recipe for things to go wrong. The added burden of Windows 7 slows progress on newer platforms. So I really would like to sunset Windows 7 support at some point. The party cannot go on forever. However, according to [1], Windows 7 still makes up about 15% of Windows installs. And I know for a fact that some pretty large WireGuard deployments are running on Windows 7 boxes, sometimes installed inside of ATMs... Whether or not that's a good idea, it is happening. What to do? My current thinking is to follow the Chromium project, or at least watch attentively and see the fallout from their decision. After a 6 month extension due to the pandemic, Google is set to retire Windows 7 support in Chrome on January 15, 2022, which is exactly 100 days from now. There are still some open questions, though: will Microsoft follow by sunsetting Windows 7 support for Edge, or will they keep it on life support even longer? Will Mozilla follow Chromium's decision as well? Is tracking Chromium's decision sensible? It might be: web standards tend to move awfully fast these days, and without an up to date web browser, will Windows 7 users upgrade to Windows 11 [or Linux]? It might not: the most important Windows 7 holdouts may well be embedded machines that don't care about browsers anyway? If anybody's thinking on this has evolved, I'd love to hear thoughts. Thanks, Jason [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desktop/worldwide/