From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: vtol@gmx.net Received: from krantz.zx2c4.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by krantz.zx2c4.com (ZX2C4 Mail Server) with ESMTP id 268b4322 for ; Sun, 6 May 2018 16:30:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) by krantz.zx2c4.com (ZX2C4 Mail Server) with ESMTP id 47d25587 for ; Sun, 6 May 2018 16:30:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.43.105] ([89.15.239.213]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx001 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MH07e-1fAOWs3TBi-00Dmi7 for ; Sun, 06 May 2018 18:33:09 +0200 Subject: Re: WG interface to ipv4 To: wireguard References: <73430f93-d7fa-777b-df24-ef4cb0021f0b@gmx.net> <8d2259a4-15cf-d036-7dd8-fb18e8311aac@gmx.net> <493b3bdf-3cf0-5594-dd7e-4b9c8d84e74c@gmx.net> <4ZK0EJ5btb88Qoa6vz0bpYJHCbhF7h4Z-BBh0ARD4tdwxcwcmdGeUPFuiPrGcdTNmp8Q8p6t4c4vMo7vKwnEIrXdVe56ovqOhiBXi4PdPxs=@protonmail.ch> <825a636f-9311-688d-6f30-9ae8d12ea44a@gmx.net> <874ljk24jh.fsf@toke.dk> From: =?UTF-8?B?0b3SieG2rOG4s+KEoA==?= Message-ID: Date: Sun, 6 May 2018 18:33:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <874ljk24jh.fsf@toke.dk> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms060100080404060607070008" Reply-To: vtol@gmx.net List-Id: Development discussion of WireGuard List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms060100080404060607070008 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US > SSH is different for two reasons: It runs over TCP, and it runs in > userspace. > > Because it runs over TCP, it will react to unauthenticated packets, > perform a handshake and exchange quite a bit of traffic before its gets= > to the point where it can authenticate its peer. Wireguard does not > exhibit this behaviour: Instead, every data packet is authenticated > individually, and if it doesn't match it is simply dropped. So an > attacker that doesn't know the private key can't even discover that a > host is running wireguard. > > Secondly, because SSH runs in userspace, a lot of the processing (such > as the TCP handshake) is done by the kernel on the application's behalf= =2E > So the only way the application has of telling the kernel not to do > this, is by setting the listen address. Wireguard lives directly in the= > kernel and so can perform the authentication directly after receiving > the packet, without suffering a context switch to userspace. Thanks for the expansive discourse. > The first reason is obviously more important than the second one. Eithe= r > way, the decision about whether to add a configuration knob is a > tradeoff; where any possible security gains have to be weighed against > the added complexity (which includes maintaining the extra code, the > risk of misconfiguration, and the cognitive load on the user who has to= > deal with more options). Wireguard, in general, tries very hard to avoi= d > configuration knobs that are not absolutely necessary; and since in thi= s > case the security gains are lower than in many other cases (to the poin= t > where they are mostly theoretical), this decision does make sense :) > > -Toke Depends perhaps a bit of what the (long term) aim/goal of the WG is -=20 whether to be a niche product for enthusiasts (only guessing here that=20 this is the current state) or to make it into the=20 mainstream/corporate/commercial arena. I doubt that server=20 administrators will take to it with no control over WG's socket/iface=20 exposure. Probably time will tell and/or I am wrong with that=20 perspective already. --------------ms060100080404060607070008 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC DKcwggXhMIIEyaADAgECAg8Cbt2Dn+cNP4QmgmDzkCQwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQAwVjELMAkG A1UEBhMCQ0gxFTATBgNVBAoTDFN3aXNzU2lnbiBBRzEwMC4GA1UEAxMnU3dpc3NTaWduIFBl cnNvbmFsIFNpbHZlciBDQSAyMDE0IC0gRzIyMB4XDTE1MDcyODEzMTI0MVoXDTIwMDcyODEz MTI0MVowPTEdMBsGA1UECxMURW1haWwgVmFsaWRhdGVkIE9ubHkxHDAaBgNVBAMUE0VtYWls OiB2dG9sQGdteC5uZXQwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQC5ASUjAK09 ZNNidaYU+dqDFt9qDwYvCxByPGry3JbqFQBBWqTTEsHvzT+lnqGHqq+orjCtHqylQldPkDjo cplXz6cbsw4j8YHQXcMT5V9rEyFuq+doP6eOfsvwwXGR45Iuly9Aho4RGjfh80O0CPMCdP39 yceF+dqVN1AQSElweHQUU49IY1IyZXQjoXaP8Qr2/6BlAEAT3XDZqeDwYKGUWWbVSdEhZKwG 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