* A POSIX and a UTF-8 question @ 2006-09-04 20:23 Daniel Qarras 2006-09-04 21:11 ` Bart Schaefer 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Daniel Qarras @ 2006-09-04 20:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: zsh-users Hi, and pardon me but I've got few lame questions regarding the upcoming zsh-4.4.. - is there any documentation explaining conformance of zsh as /bin/sh with the latest POSIX sh spec? - any ideas when zsh-4.4 supporting UTF-8 could be released? As a Linux user I see that Debian and RHEL are being prepared for a release by the end of the year and as they will be in use for years to come it would be great if zsh with UTF-8 support would be available on them by default. Cheers! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: A POSIX and a UTF-8 question 2006-09-04 20:23 A POSIX and a UTF-8 question Daniel Qarras @ 2006-09-04 21:11 ` Bart Schaefer 2006-09-04 23:16 ` Clint Adams 2006-09-05 18:23 ` Daniel Qarras 0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Bart Schaefer @ 2006-09-04 21:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: zsh-users On Sep 4, 1:24pm, Daniel Qarras wrote: } } - is there any documentation explaining conformance of zsh as /bin/sh } with the latest POSIX sh spec? No, not really. What exactly do you mean by "the latest" by the way? I've been following their mailing list, and there's a new revision coming up for publication later this year. } - any ideas when zsh-4.4 supporting UTF-8 could be released? As a Linux } user I see that Debian and RHEL are being prepared for a release by the } end of the year and as they will be in use for years to come it would } be great if zsh with UTF-8 support would be available on them by } default. My guess is that it's already too late for any newly-released version of zsh to be considered stable enough to go into RHEL5. I don't know about Debian. Clint? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: A POSIX and a UTF-8 question 2006-09-04 21:11 ` Bart Schaefer @ 2006-09-04 23:16 ` Clint Adams 2006-09-05 18:23 ` Daniel Qarras 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Clint Adams @ 2006-09-04 23:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bart Schaefer; +Cc: zsh-users > My guess is that it's already too late for any newly-released version of > zsh to be considered stable enough to go into RHEL5. I don't know about > Debian. Clint? We can probably squeeze a new version in as late as mid-October. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: A POSIX and a UTF-8 question 2006-09-04 21:11 ` Bart Schaefer 2006-09-04 23:16 ` Clint Adams @ 2006-09-05 18:23 ` Daniel Qarras 2006-09-07 18:03 ` Peter Stephenson 1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Daniel Qarras @ 2006-09-05 18:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: zsh-users Hi! > } - is there any documentation explaining conformance of zsh as > /bin/sh > } with the latest POSIX sh spec? > > No, not really. What exactly do you mean by "the latest" by the way? > I've been following their mailing list, and there's a new revision > coming up for publication later this year. I noticed this also and that's why I was talking about the "latest and greatest" but of course it is more important to know conformance regarding to any standard version, not just the latest. Thanks! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: A POSIX and a UTF-8 question 2006-09-05 18:23 ` Daniel Qarras @ 2006-09-07 18:03 ` Peter Stephenson 2006-09-11 16:39 ` Daniel Qarras 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Peter Stephenson @ 2006-09-07 18:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: zsh-users On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Daniel Qarras <dqarras@yahoo.com> wrote: > > } - is there any documentation explaining conformance of zsh as > > /bin/sh > > } with the latest POSIX sh spec? > > > > No, not really. What exactly do you mean by "the latest" by the way? > > I've been following their mailing list, and there's a new revision > > coming up for publication later this year. > > I noticed this also and that's why I was talking about the "latest and > greatest" but of course it is more important to know conformance > regarding to any standard version, not just the latest. Unfortunately, the documentation is "if you start zsh in sh mode [how to do this is in the normal documentation, at least] it sort of works most of the time". I'm sure there are many bits that aren't quite right, but nobody's kept track of them all, and I don't suppose anybody's got the time. It's one of the disadvantages of having only a handful of us actively maintaining the internals in our spare time. This task wouldn't need familiarity with the C code, though. One recent headline feature is that in 4.3 (but not 4.2) Wayne has fixed it so that (as far as I know) word splitting in sh mode is according to other shells. That has probably been the most noticeable problem in recent years. -- Peter Stephenson <p.w.stephenson@ntlworld.com> Web page now at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/p.w.stephenson/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: A POSIX and a UTF-8 question 2006-09-07 18:03 ` Peter Stephenson @ 2006-09-11 16:39 ` Daniel Qarras 2006-09-11 17:05 ` Peter Stephenson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Daniel Qarras @ 2006-09-11 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: zsh-users Hi! > One recent headline feature is that in 4.3 (but not 4.2) Wayne has > fixed it so that (as far as I know) word splitting in sh mode is > according to other shells. That has probably been the most noticeable > problem in recent years. I now actually tested on my FC5 laptop linking /bin/sh to a recent zsh-4.3 from CVS and I was astonished how well it worked! I'm writing this article from a system with /bin/sh being zsh-4.3! There were only two glitches that I needed to fix by hand and after that all services seem to go up and down without any problems: 1) There is unfortunately a bash-only expression used in RH's shell function library, that is =~. However, this was used only once in device mapper related function so that did not affect me, I just commented it out. YMMV. (I did not find a www description for this but it can be at least checked from bash3.1 manual pages what it does. 2) It seems that many RH scripts do something like: cd /some/path . functions and in zsh-4.3 as /bin/sh this does not work, it needs to be: cd /some/path . ./functions Additionally, there's one cosmetic bash feature used that seems to be not supported by zsh: RH uses in their i18n effort tricks like: echo -n $"Starting service foo: " With bash I get just the normal string, with zsh I also get the $. I did not look very carefully about this, so not sure what they are actually doing here. I filed a note to RH bugzilla about 1 and 2 as 206035 but in any case I am very impressed how well zsh nowadays works as /bin/sh in a Linux distribution. Cheers! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: A POSIX and a UTF-8 question 2006-09-11 16:39 ` Daniel Qarras @ 2006-09-11 17:05 ` Peter Stephenson 2006-09-11 17:37 ` Daniel Qarras 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Peter Stephenson @ 2006-09-11 17:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: zsh-users Daniel Qarras wrote: > 1) There is unfortunately a bash-only expression used in RH's shell > function library, that is =~. However, this was used only once in > device mapper related function so that did not affect me, I just > commented it out. YMMV. (I did not find a www description for this but > it can be at least checked from bash3.1 manual pages what it does. That's for extended regular expressions. That wouldn't be too hard to support, if we used the system's RE capabilities, although we'd probably want to do parentheses differently. However, as you say, it's specific to bash so isn't that vital. > 2) It seems that many RH scripts do something like: > > cd /some/path > . functions > > and in zsh-4.3 as /bin/sh this does not work, it needs to be: > > cd /some/path > . ./functions Right. I think zsh has always been implemented like that. We don't really want to change it; the standard (IEEE Std 1003.1, 2004 Edition) says specifically: RATIONALE Some older implementations searched the current directory for the file, even if the value of PATH disallowed it. This behavior was omitted from this volume of IEEE Std 1003.1-2001 due to concerns about introducing the susceptibility to trojan horses that the user might be trying to avoid by leaving dot out of PATH . I checked on my Fedora system (about Core 4, I think) and the only init script without a path is network: cd /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts . network-functions If it's still there it probably ought to be fixed. > Additionally, there's one cosmetic bash feature used that seems to be > not supported by zsh: RH uses in their i18n effort tricks like: > > echo -n $"Starting service foo: " It would be relatively easy to interpret these in the same fashion as some other form of quoting. However, there's not much internationalization in these parts and won't be without a huge effort and it's not clear it's worth the effort doing anything apart from that. Thanks for the notes. -- Peter Stephenson <pws@csr.com> Software Engineer CSR PLC, Churchill House, Cambridge Business Park, Cowley Road Cambridge, CB4 0WZ, UK Tel: +44 (0)1223 692070 To access the latest news from CSR copy this link into a web browser: http://www.csr.com/email_sig.php ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: A POSIX and a UTF-8 question 2006-09-11 17:05 ` Peter Stephenson @ 2006-09-11 17:37 ` Daniel Qarras 0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Daniel Qarras @ 2006-09-11 17:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: zsh-users Hi! > > 1) There is unfortunately a bash-only expression used in RH's shell > > function library, that is =~. However, this was used only once in > > device mapper related function so that did not affect me, I just > > commented it out. YMMV. (I did not find a www description for this > but > > it can be at least checked from bash3.1 manual pages what it does. > > That's for extended regular expressions. That wouldn't be too hard > to > support, if we used the system's RE capabilities, although we'd > probably > want to do parentheses differently. However, as you say, it's > specific > to bash so isn't that vital. The bug I filed to RH is already handled. This will not change but... > > 2) It seems that many RH scripts do something like: > > > > cd /some/path > > . functions > > > > and in zsh-4.3 as /bin/sh this does not work, it needs to be: > > > > cd /some/path > > . ./functions > > Right. I think zsh has always been implemented like that. We don't > really want to change it; the standard (IEEE Std 1003.1, 2004 > Edition) says specifically: ...this has been fixed in their CVS. > I checked on my Fedora system (about Core 4, I think) and the only > init > script without a path is network: > > cd /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts > > . network-functions > > If it's still there it probably ought to be fixed. FWIW, I had tons of those in my FC5's ifup-* scripts. > It would be relatively easy to interpret these in the same fashion as > some other form of quoting. However, there's not much > internationalization in these parts and won't be without a huge > effort > and it's not clear it's worth the effort doing anything apart from > that. I agree, supporting those $"funny variables" is probably not a huge win. Thanks! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2006-09-11 17:37 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2006-09-04 20:23 A POSIX and a UTF-8 question Daniel Qarras 2006-09-04 21:11 ` Bart Schaefer 2006-09-04 23:16 ` Clint Adams 2006-09-05 18:23 ` Daniel Qarras 2006-09-07 18:03 ` Peter Stephenson 2006-09-11 16:39 ` Daniel Qarras 2006-09-11 17:05 ` Peter Stephenson 2006-09-11 17:37 ` Daniel Qarras
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