From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 19048 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2022 05:42:46 -0000 Received: from zero.zsh.org (2a02:898:31:0:48:4558:7a:7368) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 2 Sep 2022 05:42:46 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20210803; h=List-Archive:List-Owner:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Id:Sender:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-Id: Mime-Version:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID; bh=I6IHA+rJBbgrCMKdhFq9nBl3bx2+I+v4v5CUXrs981I=; b=m9IajIMJmWezveVmalNPk9O64o QWW/bsDNJ4zZvUVtGj2xwjuRViM97lilVK0U1ieYUQvXocJbzKnLITALB0qmxtuZ2Yw3El9QQu7wK CsWqPy5Oh4wMVDCJ72WqBgyzLdRvxbWNTpyTPLf2Mut/l4GtqMq1e7o9cC5zf1RfQE4o1UCPvwJs4 GPBsNr+PybeKmJxyG+qg7P40mx8V5svEzRfn63kJtiOyfTlkbhmTmsQT47rLgWNAWkn+GmhJTWJt+ 6xBe+74/Yl0RUzIdXxSxW5YI+L+M2gH35crjBbvVz4X5Heo64nrVHaG7Q66r/8rTNUm1F/YqUGyV5 OcUp660Q==; Received: from authenticated user by zero.zsh.org with local id 1oTzS2-000BPu-9w; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 05:42:46 +0000 Received: from authenticated user by zero.zsh.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1oTzQb-000AhM-Kq; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 05:41:17 +0000 Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailauth.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id C40F327C0054; Fri, 2 Sep 2022 01:41:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap48 ([10.202.2.98]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 02 Sep 2022 01:41:15 -0400 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvfedrvdekledgleelucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvfevufgtgfesthhqredtreerjeenucfhrhhomhepnfgr fihrvghntggvpgggvghljoiiqhhuvgiiuceolhgrrhhrhihvseiishhhrdhorhhgqeenuc ggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedttefhveegtedtgfeufedutdehfeejheffffduvdeukefhteff vddthfevgeeggeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfh hrohhmpehlrghrrhihvhdomhgvshhmthhprghuthhhphgvrhhsohhnrghlihhthidquddu hedukeejjedtgedqudduledvjeefkeehqdhlrghrrhihvheppeiishhhrdhorhhgsehfrg hsthhmrghilhdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: iaa214773:Fastmail Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 9C04F31A0062; Fri, 2 Sep 2022 01:41:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.7.0-alpha0-841-g7899e99a45-fm-20220811.002-g7899e99a Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <962d44b9-a3e3-4979-b951-feac4cf5bb8d@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <0e8bc96d-17a7-4be2-afab-7a0fd827866f@www.fastmail.com> <5141de6b-dbee-4d4b-3b74-d95a671fa04e@luffy.cx> <33d0bd1a-4da7-416d-a92a-04ceb07d1107@www.fastmail.com> <1c9b6072-26e7-467e-b8cc-7d44f15eaf1b@www.fastmail.com> <9116efd4-7c88-4ea3-9601-9c522236fee7@www.fastmail.com> <20220831092831.GA992100@zira.vinc17.org> <2a3b5ac0-f4f8-4c14-835a-c3d31db6d4fb@www.fastmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 01:40:54 -0400 From: =?UTF-8?Q?Lawrence_Vel=C3=A1zquez?= To: "Felipe Contreras" Cc: "Ray Andrews" , zsh-users@zsh.org Subject: Re: Most minimal configuration challenge Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Seq: 28027 Archived-At: X-Loop: zsh-users@zsh.org Errors-To: zsh-users-owner@zsh.org Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: zsh-users-request@zsh.org X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: On Thu, Sep 1, 2022, at 9:49 PM, Felipe Contreras wrote: > On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 8:27 PM Lawrence Vel=C3=A1zquez wrote: >> On Wed, Aug 31, 2022, at 10:17 AM, Ray Andrews wrote: >> > Only people who have just now learned something can >> > explain it in a way that other people who want to learn it can rela= te to >> > because >> > only the learner has the mind of a learner. >> >> Someone who has "just now learned something" has the shallowest >> possible understanding of it and can only perpetuate that shallow >> understanding. > > That is not quite true. Yes, the vast majority of newcomers have the > shallowest understanding of zsh, but not necessarily of shells, > programming languages, configuration systems, or any number of things > that might be relevant. > > This would be like saying a programmer entering the world of economics > only has the shallowest of understandings and therefore cannot provide > anything of value. You are misrepresenting what I said. > Yeah, maybe not provide any value of economic > theory, but he can provide value in data processing... Absolutely, but one would not say this programmer, who has just learned some basic economics for their job, is the only one who can write good Econ 101 textbooks. > Or that a patent clerk cannot provide value > in physics... Albert Einstein would beg to disagree. This is not a serious example. Come on. > But the true value of educators comes from the fact that they are in > the frontlines of knowledge acquisition. The main reason they know > what explanations work better is constant feedback from students. > > The clueless students are an essential part of the equation. I did not say otherwise. > Ultimately the people who should judge prose meant for newcomers, are > newcomers. If they say it isn't clear, then it isn't clear. Obviously. --=20 vq