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Processed in 1.929787 secs); 18 Sep 2019 17:18:02 -0000 X-Envelope-From: roman.perepelitsa@gmail.com X-Qmail-Scanner-Mime-Attachments: | X-Qmail-Scanner-Zip-Files: | Received-SPF: pass (ns1.primenet.com.au: SPF record at _netblocks.google.com designates 209.85.166.66 as permitted sender) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vrgy8rbaydFdWBp5dTNsKsOeRwXqH1MhHojiXgOe0Qw=; b=WpL9tAMVRKeXE9ueQVySMR9Dc9ujMeFU6VZNLj04n4LBxbjjVzIaL4ihaQXVNQzuGE 9IXWjToGQexihJpdWx1C0wRGW15j/ZFmGPavrYZ/22jNgp2Kex0HxHiCYLNJzR1GGOC1 z/+W1Sse/BY7UXxGVUwv023IbztT70PiHfGTRDnjNGvqRBl6kD8u8DUIxe1WOynmxAt2 /BsCWYQRsBoq6G9EsU0W339DLUwr31hYGV+gJMUn+JwjHV1id9igsGvtJiiNzPRRAe7h /ae07Fk9qUpPodJRPnXQiZfIT0LqaPdc/lQ4J2FsaVNayACygv5x8A8FgHkRJCUeMYyQ IsCg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vrgy8rbaydFdWBp5dTNsKsOeRwXqH1MhHojiXgOe0Qw=; b=Cjm0Tm7w6RKh70jd+Jt83yF9YIjA0ujE8qOjX8EYGYYfkNR0q1jksqBQ7z6MLhJEFs /dV8vAzzX30b4zLRPjVHU7ytNeGLd2pwiMJRKZNpz8fFVYwJ6Uu7fbCLGBjrDZg7KYNl qbScquRxNytkgxefXEj34CLM2GL6evNDYyTQ5Q5z24mVlceQ7kDVGwmjeCPLfEerT2Y4 5QSh1vTm5hCuQ19u3vQOn8ZcGLIPVvmH+R69SUcHdmpU96lRPXgxnN5becAMNfOWMqCB GMsDvd5TzKA4NlBEP6s1e/7PSSIfzg9b2eFETqwSERCOD7o2deaBHEHyT8J8eZ7J17Da MPXA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV9/euCDnPUYEwgao2N4MxKJnDj6rwj0Uy4nl0+KB8Y3FohNLoF QSubMTWGSDziW5G+T6rdZ1Ysu35KrVZEsNlkFPg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxqwel52AKwysevmwov+5hSwZxnFHbIv6i//kFFATTQMZ5A0k/xG4tQ3IlzREAiK8azmfUmJa1gfszSpfpFImA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6638:681:: with SMTP id i1mr6311464jab.127.1568827046536; Wed, 18 Sep 2019 10:17:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2369b204-5afc-d523-c713-acf64e153a3f@eastlink.ca> In-Reply-To: <2369b204-5afc-d523-c713-acf64e153a3f@eastlink.ca> From: Roman Perepelitsa Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 19:17:15 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Opensource.com Zsh article To: Ray Andrews Cc: Zsh Users Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 6:38 PM Ray Andrews wrote: > > On 2019-09-18 9:13 a.m., J=C3=A9r=C3=A9mie Roquet wrote: > > > > It's kind of what happens with other critical pieces of > > infrastructure, like gnupg and openssl, unfortunately=E2=80=A6 > > > So I've heard. I have no direct experience of any of that tho. You'd > think that with Linux being so central to so many things now that > there'd be some sort of consortium of companies and governments and > universities to look after the essential software, even to pay the key > people. This does happen. Google has dedicated teams with dozens of engineers working on Linux and LLVM. Bram Moolenaar is still working on vim and getting paid to do so. It just so happens that neither bash nor zsh are mission-critical for large companies. The fact that zsh is replacing bash as the default shell on macOS will go unnoticed for the laymen and experts alike. The former either don't use shell or won't notice the difference; the latter know how to install their shell of choice. There may be bugs in bash and zsh due to underfunding but these are much harder to exploit than bugs in the kernel or javascript engine. It's not necessarily fair that some open-source contributors get to enjoy working on their favorite project and getting paid to do it while others have to fund this activity from their own pocket despite having as much if not bigger impact on the world. My point is that large corporations aren't acting irrationally. They generally allocate engineering resources where the payoff is the highest. If no one is sponsoring bash and zsh, it's because paid engineers' time (a scarce and expensive commodity!) generates higher yield elsewhere. One could argue that the benefits of a better shell accrue to everyone while funding has to come from the pocket of a single company when the funding decision is made. So we have a sort of the tragedy of the commons. This argument is getting weaker by the day when a handful of the largest tech companies eats an increasingly larger share of the world economy. Google, Apple, Microsoft or Amazon can certainly afford to spend money open source projects that make everyone better off. And they do, roughly according to the marginal benefit-per-dollar-spent. Roman.