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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=dondley.com; s=default; t=1706296646; bh=OJsoga8Mmomh4+ENZqYHUVm/j4FG2ihv9kxr2uqEisI=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:From; b=YtNm0fI1tdNpfMwKTpfzfFxcgWMGE1e2ZSn8d48rHe9hX3Z7X/QZ+ozDsZS4oRqGB eUQ/S+Ma2h9AIdAYhTGZ3x1BFkpL1cKEvDiFj7qXtEeIDfMJ65LWqsvCxVEzjRDMB2 hmzvy1bj5Iw6kJa4X4L63Us0mGYWweyklliusxSh/Lpxh8JwjHadQb3BeaPGZflc+P oUjzuBVYoaUXZx+ruEca4PwSpkUol7cXxoxYgq1bHDiyzq6AC0uDuhMOkqTZ4V9Sox tRZ0tTQIZMXuIx7RLbIrIr5ZSKhLHdYVl+UzJnIQb4eoOwkSk14TZ9Hkic6SZJ27z9 X0S0xYflJ1yvw== From: Steve Dondley Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1D9DC5FC-1F20-4151-9421-D1FEBDACECD6" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.400.31\)) Subject: Re: Can't tell the difference in operation between PATH_SCRIPT and NO_PATH_SCRIPT Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 14:17:14 -0500 In-Reply-To: Cc: Ray Andrews , zsh-users@zsh.org To: Roman Perepelitsa References: <73E4333B-C282-4A58-837C-A50F73E13289@dondley.com> <680FA5D3-E8FD-49F2-9AE3-C169A6D9DA9E@dondley.com> <4a1df20e-70c4-41ed-b370-4fbbae0619b9@app.fastmail.com> <3DC872AC-5B19-468D-85D5-5D3A501EF7E9@dondley.com> <2CF29A22-6721-4275-8E92-7FF61CE4CDCB@dondley.com> <316F625D-EC13-43C5-808F-B78DD09E906C@dondley.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.400.31) X-Seq: 29584 Archived-At: X-Loop: zsh-users@zsh.org Errors-To: zsh-users-owner@zsh.org Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: zsh-users-request@zsh.org X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Help: , List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: --Apple-Mail=_1D9DC5FC-1F20-4151-9421-D1FEBDACECD6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >=20 > I respectfully disagree. In my experience, Unix man pages, in > particular zsh documentation, are excellent resources, effectively > tailored to their intended audience. I'm part of that demographic and > find them incredibly useful. Difficulty in understanding content, like > cooking recipes in my case, often stems from it not being designed for > our specific knowledge base. This doesn't diminish the quality of the > content itself. Well, I like to talk about specific examples. Speaking in generalities = about whether documentation is good/bad gets us nowhere. So if you got to Chapter 5, paragraph 2, you=E2=80=99ll see: It is also possible for a file in $ZDOTDIR to re-enable GLOBAL_RCS. Both = RCS and GLOBAL_RCS are set by default. Now, I=E2=80=99m not exactly a newb but I=E2=80=99m far from an expert. = But I fell like I=E2=80=99m getting assaulted out of the blue with this = before unmentioned $ZDOTDIR variable. Immediately my mind starts = spinning with questions: 1) where is this variable set? 2) what are some typical values for it? 3) do I have to worry about this if I=E2=80=99m using the XDG config 4) does the OS handle this for me?=20 5) This looks like an environment variable? Is it an environment = variable or something different? Yes, I'm getting technically accurate information about this variable. = But nowhere does the documentation give me any clue on how to use this = setting in a practical way and why it might be useful to me. So next I search through the manual. I see ZDOTDIR listed in the = =E2=80=9CParameters=E2=80=9D chapter. I have no idea what a = =E2=80=9CParameter=E2=80=9D is. Is this an environment variable? And I = don=E2=80=99t get any of my other questions answered.=20 I could go on. But my main point is that it feels like the documentation = makes the assumption you know how a typical shell works and that you are = familiar with the many common features between the different kinds of = shells. That=E2=80=99s fine, but it feels like the documenation could = put in a much better effort of at least giving you a bit more of a big = picture clue if you don=E2=80=99t have one. Couple this problem with wording that is stylistically like nails on a = chalkboard and you are in for a very tough slog. You have to have a = huge amount of time on your hands to get through it.=20= --Apple-Mail=_1D9DC5FC-1F20-4151-9421-D1FEBDACECD6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

I respectfully = disagree. In my experience, Unix man pages, in
particular zsh = documentation, are excellent resources, effectively
tailored to their = intended audience. I'm part of that demographic and
find them = incredibly useful. Difficulty in understanding content, like
cooking = recipes in my case, often stems from it not being designed for
our = specific knowledge base. This doesn't diminish the quality of = the
content itself.

Well, I like = to talk about specific examples. Speaking in generalities about whether = documentation is good/bad gets us nowhere.

So if you = got to Chapter 5, paragraph 2, you=E2=80=99ll see:

It is also possible for a file in $ZDOTDIR to re-enable GLOBAL_RCS. Both RCS and GLOBAL_RCS are set by = default.


Now, I=E2=80=99m not exactly a newb but I=E2=80=99m far from an = expert. But I fell like I=E2=80=99m getting assaulted out of the blue = with this before unmentioned $ZDOTDIR variable. Immediately my mind = starts spinning with questions:

1) where is = this variable set?
2) what are some typical values for = it?
3) do I have to worry about this if I=E2=80=99m using the = XDG config
4) does the OS handle this for = me? 
5) This looks like an environment variable? Is it an = environment variable or something = different?

Yes, I'm getting technically = accurate information about this variable. But nowhere does the = documentation give me any clue on how to use this setting in a practical = way and why it might be useful to me.

So next I = search through the manual. I see ZDOTDIR listed in the =E2=80=9CParameters= =E2=80=9D chapter. I have no idea what a =E2=80=9CParameter=E2=80=9D is. = Is this an environment variable? And I don=E2=80=99t get any of my other = questions answered. 

I could go on. But my = main point is that it feels like the documentation makes the assumption = you know how a typical shell works and that you are familiar with the = many common features between the different kinds of shells. That=E2=80=99s= fine, but it feels like the documenation could put in a much better = effort of at least giving you a bit more of a big picture clue if you = don=E2=80=99t have one.

Couple this problem = with wording that is stylistically like nails on a chalkboard  and = you are in for a very tough slog. You have to have a huge amount of time = on your hands to get through it. 
= --Apple-Mail=_1D9DC5FC-1F20-4151-9421-D1FEBDACECD6--