From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 19273 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2021 16:39:03 -0000 Received: from zero.zsh.org (2a02:898:31:0:48:4558:7a:7368) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 4 Aug 2021 16:39:03 -0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; cv=none; a=rsa-sha256; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20210803; t=1628095143; b=oZ8fmp6NSUKGL3aS5BDuu5NI5aYEI8B/Jhm50cCDzlzfn4GIRf86hDyDrjISzFpHHAkdALiAz0 avQMDeLCiLXO+D+6XR8Kd5UgD4110NTGMsoZk3pW4SBnP6hm53c/rCdKr4KOpIYC2BIR4Nlvp3 iQe+lKVo/QgKuw4sM2kGqTVphVgZnl/q3q0zgefoGBWqJIzfIVybkEoh7sR0i0auJ4j602Wwpd yq6tFoAnJBzeErlSIwBSSh0UnSbvFmDx0KeGofVoRjaTCzqM7BlexBk1tnJpmouqyvgo1Hwo1d /ekmq4iuvA23PE75V8zAs7DXq6pD8+jqhUsmQM51Cdae3w==; ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; zsh.org; iprev=pass (a.mx.sigpipe.cz) smtp.remote-ip=37.221.242.114; dmarc=none header.from=sigpipe.cz; arc=none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20210803; t=1628095143; bh=O4XBv7dw/xwBc0yjuGIL9Vw07CmPrUJ18mjz4S+wKXU=; h=List-Archive:List-Owner:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Help: List-Id:Sender:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID: Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:DKIM-Signature; b=i6Ozqk4U/9MomqISMSdSu9f5leoTbvtm26ua/SsCDyvd46MlCSX9/6RTrBnXrS1i3+7w8YacXy vLocHBtmAADACan+Xs97WJ3dng7q/5csDr40OakX3qs2Gf44hZvY5f0RME+XpK9InUMZiwpFeu YYvtiYH3TXQy70qv90485H6xhHxue/aMzNAcWyZcGvKKs8vQcRhKCrk7lTgIVJdS3eXmJCpk1u K3opZMnBt5JUiOzDbFNcF0izMd14b9vVrCF6B/ayOSBxA+hkS/JNOFd/naetlW2Zvz8RSQsyWF DMWm3i8uw51AYgIbwMFpHoQo2D3zrNe6MEbt9ByYL0Zc0w==; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20210803; h=List-Archive:List-Owner:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Id:Sender:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version :References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID; bh=UzSOtd3UHJJmJ+XE902jmd+Eo9KozMjnz/1tvO6995Y=; b=K+KC3+AgPtBmtVacyimLOLKZAx U+EaN29Mw4f/e2z93wLfYepCo3OYB1nW06uDUP5UPtXDZ9NsGih5bVVFuhhG041MnAvFrOZJhurIN T0uOCpMQsE4ANyA7kxOldwXBRxIndWYaJsEszob/DWQZuw0IGi2FqOtaNB3iC/UWQvdmZVLrjxAPK p7a5LJ354HXOeI8TyQPYKdnLMNvreg/krgiQqA9Cbn50gEMUuHWihs42xUh71tY1Mbv5Ic1kH2wDP 0rcLoOpgx+OMLTwqCC/yKTtM8czR9lfcr/GkqqiAoxKw1bfZzx6i6l1KZKNbxlKWVaF944UI5zIPg QkWOPLIA==; Received: from authenticated user by zero.zsh.org with local id 1mBJv4-0008Do-3X; Wed, 04 Aug 2021 16:39:02 +0000 Authentication-Results: zsh.org; iprev=pass (a.mx.sigpipe.cz) smtp.remote-ip=37.221.242.114; dmarc=none header.from=sigpipe.cz; arc=none Received: from a.mx.sigpipe.cz ([37.221.242.114]:1351) by zero.zsh.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1mBJuQ-0007VI-09; Wed, 04 Aug 2021 16:38:22 +0000 Received: by a.mx.sigpipe.cz (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0CDBA1555037A9; Wed, 4 Aug 2021 18:38:21 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 18:38:20 +0200 From: Roman Neuhauser To: Ray Andrews Cc: zsh-users@zsh.org Subject: Re: Better Help Docs Searching? Message-ID: References: <7c81f1c2-6054-4c63-dc5d-154ab8b184f3@eastlink.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7c81f1c2-6054-4c63-dc5d-154ab8b184f3@eastlink.ca> X-Seq: 26855 Archived-At: X-Loop: zsh-users@zsh.org Errors-To: zsh-users-owner@zsh.org Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: zsh-users-request@zsh.org X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: # rayandrews@eastlink.ca / 2021-08-04 07:56:47 -0700: > On 2021-08-03 11:30 p.m., Roman Neuhauser wrote: > > simply sucks, and > It simply does, and it sure is comforting to hear it from an adeptus, > the novice tends to think that it's all his fault but sometimes not. there's a little more to the story, i failed to keep up with the times! parts of the tooling are much better nowadays than they were twenty years ago, cf. * https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=apropos&manpath=FreeBSD+4.4-RELEASE * https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=apropos&manpath=FreeBSD+13.0-RELEASE the contemporary version is basically altavista at its heyday, just for man pages. the remaining work is to retire the man+pager combo and make the advanced capabilities accessible from inside the integrated viewer alongside a simplified interface. > I wonder if anything at all could possibly be done about this. "will nobody think of the beginners" is a perpetual problem. you can learn to program, be very good at it, be in the right place at the right time to actually have impact, and see how long you'll keep interest in writing software that isn't for you anymore because you have learned more efficient ways. all the while facing a deluge of users complaining that it's still not enough. and do it gratis. :) -- roman