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boundary="------------ld7ciz9cx6EPdhkCfAQDcYsz" Message-id: Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2024 15:47:24 -0800 MIME-version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: tilde syntax Content-language: en-US To: zsh-users@zsh.org References: <625e7ef5-be1f-4b5d-bb2a-f71634d151cf@eastlink.ca> <3fb34197-be9a-4323-87e0-7052cecf33ea@app.fastmail.com> <3adba5e1-18b6-495e-bcbc-09a554465029@app.fastmail.com> From: Ray Andrews In-reply-to: X-Seq: 29428 Archived-At: X-Loop: zsh-users@zsh.org Errors-To: zsh-users-owner@zsh.org Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: zsh-users-request@zsh.org X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Help: , List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------ld7ciz9cx6EPdhkCfAQDcYsz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 2024-01-05 15:27, Bart Schaefer wrote: > On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 2:50 PM Ray Andrews wrote: > There really isn't any "parsing" per se -- internally, an "active" > pattern character is represented differently than its literal > counterpart. No way to see that unfold?  Anyway your word 'active' is the thing: Is that literal or is it active?  I know it's several decades too late to do anything about it, but if we had to do it all over again, I'd advocate for clear and *visible* ways of coding one or the other.  Mind ... when expanding a variable ... back to tildes!  A variable is by definition a symbol but what it contains could be another symbol or something literal.  Logical completion would demand arbitrary nesting of any combination. That's further than I need to go right now. But you know, it would save much grief if someone told you this up front but nobody does: "One of the endless problems with zsh -- or any other shell -- is that there are places where entered characters are presumed to be literal -- but can be forced to indicate some action or command -- and other places where entered characters are presumed to be actions -- but can be forced to become literal characters."  ... such a sentence would have saved endless grief if I'd read it on my first day using zsh.  As always I'm ruined by my knowledge of C, where there is never the slightest doubt. --------------ld7ciz9cx6EPdhkCfAQDcYsz Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 2024-01-05 15:27, Bart Schaefer wrote:
On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 2:50 PM Ray Andrews <rayandrews@eastlink.ca> wrote:
There really isn't any "parsing" per se -- internally, an "active" 
pattern character is represented differently than its literal
counterpart.

No way to see that unfold?  Anyway your word 'active' is the thing: Is that literal or is it active?  I know it's several decades too late to do anything about it, but if we had to do it all over again, I'd advocate for clear and *visible* ways of coding one or the other.  Mind ... when expanding a variable ... back to tildes!  A variable is by definition a symbol but what it contains could be another symbol or something literal.  Logical completion would demand arbitrary nesting of any combination.  That's further than I need to go right now. 

But you know, it would save much grief if someone told you this up front but nobody does: "One of the endless problems with zsh -- or any other shell -- is that there are places where entered characters are presumed to be literal -- but can be forced to indicate some action or command -- and other places where entered characters are presumed to be actions -- but can be forced to become literal characters."  ... such a sentence would have saved endless grief if I'd read it on my first day using zsh.  As always I'm ruined by my knowledge of C, where there is never the slightest doubt. 

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