From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 3114 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2024 16:40:59 -0000 Received: from zero.zsh.org (2a02:898:31:0:48:4558:7a:7368) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 13 Jan 2024 16:40:59 -0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; cv=none; a=rsa-sha256; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20210803; t=1705164059; b=K45AOdhJltmU5rlC2VHuebxPZOK2Okhz5d8TQjNQjYuBVtmQ6mrlGZ3r48zn3TPPY/cOfZI9uy nAeODgZqRP4I/3txo60ZxaVCsKzxD5Qe3Mwj6XsBqw0vpbMCd05NGjAnAOPGol7/HE3YpOs5It 4QZ82p3w1Sk7BUQAzJa5pSl1110QoY4RXbM0PK4EawpUGVuZ2Z7ZjLByMAhFIJB0SJrBqsn9Xf GAjCbZ2n+F4aiTwLZq42BIjqK+/jkTGGKSP6IevdaBa2MwL5DESjQyDO3XxRAm8DoXux9COhfO /F3jlO5C5cBteMuDfLEyDf79+DbsZkf3ILslYh6Hzh6nkg==; ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; zsh.org; iprev=pass (mta01.eastlink.ca) smtp.remote-ip=24.224.136.30; dmarc=none header.from=eastlink.ca; arc=none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20210803; t=1705164059; bh=3yM/DNuROtfijDFo3SEzPH00bCg/L7Z1KFPPyexyFW0=; h=List-Archive:List-Owner:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Help: List-Id:Sender:In-Reply-To:From:References:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:Content-Type:DKIM-Signature; b=T/qk/+djBfkfRImhncLg11pfuLnFy1PjfY6tgo+L31UUETIvD7wPKomZemzy2d/cATghX8ncMQ zVdCPIRIwBsAjOsgRnVAbRuYThXPJwRsiLKuhrclSYGYZ5LYJiOQDEzQ19K71cb+QDHMpRP+4p MWI0Vnkb3hW8FM07DE+lzZe6MCZ0T/GLE28LRKslZwEchu05EfopJsmgVtPJUEIn1357A/u1Pc RWvXdQg0gsvTTwNr+sVcJTvFDpY0/ezEzkPUIG7/SduAXd9uijmItL9N2/MbYdPpyvQgZO9rJk IDJoAUCYqwXX++sSTuuWRuUCKPmw43JLJ+YcMLiC2xthbg==; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20210803; h=List-Archive:List-Owner:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Id:Sender:In-reply-to:From:References:To: Subject:MIME-version:Date:Message-id:Content-type:Reply-To:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID; bh=WmvURqe6SbjlIkTt/0LRS6mkOBVRtokuQU+uZxzYtzA=; b=oVZTdIlMeCdIj5Da4XF6fg/lqD Nt/jDa0iKja5t747g8bMfFQABBcpsBLq7jJOJyCfwLaLtOhLzdO4fYPQQwAEKEJIAl1JmrTRlSwiz /Flv5sWRk5C4KPLixKvrw5x6R8Bbze0dJhEbnPH8Mix5M2wvcfAPp+Acif+YBaqphLfgdJ2uPucLp ZcaKh7J21T3K19qL0yDEVbkuZ5twcPczycJM5LJqRoJVOhepjYuAl00u2VAFj+fHGdU9hYyikpyMx 2dMDTMcyuGKrOfqGVzbjPeO4PBTqCtUj81pMVB6q5xlNh8nJ57alG8ol5CK0GBZJf8f2D+1hYTwlc pAvW3fPQ==; Received: by zero.zsh.org with local id 1rOh45-000C8n-Ic; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 16:40:57 +0000 Authentication-Results: zsh.org; iprev=pass (mta01.eastlink.ca) smtp.remote-ip=24.224.136.30; dmarc=none header.from=eastlink.ca; arc=none Received: from mta01.eastlink.ca ([24.224.136.30]:50507) by zero.zsh.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) id 1rOh3N-000BQS-06; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 16:40:14 +0000 Received: from csp01.eastlink.ca ([71.7.199.166]) by mta01.eastlink.ca ([24.224.136.30]) with ESMTPS id <0S772GXXOKYITAS0@mta01.eastlink.ca> for zsh-users@zsh.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 12:40:11 -0400 (AST) Received: from [192.168.0.11] (host-24-207-19-13.public.eastlink.ca [24.207.19.13]) by csp01.eastlink.ca ([71.7.199.166]) with ESMTPSA id Oh3Kruv0VAItUOh3LrDzod (version=TLSv1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256); Sat, 13 Jan 2024 12:40:11 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=NJYTuW2g c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=65a2bceb a=e7T7DzMKK1R988ZCg0wLyw==:117 a=e7T7DzMKK1R988ZCg0wLyw==:17 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=nOLx5L6F5ZlrcBTG9VUA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=WlJPic344JdhynTsOXcA:9 a=BP5ESfCSZUqcQAK4:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 X-Vade-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrvdeijedgledvucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecugfetuffvnffkpffmpdfqfgfvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurheptgfkffggfgfuvfhfhfgjsegrtderredtvdejnecuhfhrohhmpeftrgihucetnhgurhgvfihsuceorhgrhigrnhgurhgvfihssegvrghsthhlihhnkhdrtggrqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpefhteethfevgeeuvdelgefgvdevudefueduffdvgfelvddvgfdtieegueeuleeifeenucfkphepvdegrddvtdejrdduledrudefnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehinhgvthepvdegrddvtdejrdduledrudefpdhhvghloheplgduledvrdduieekrddtrdduudgnpdhmrghilhhfrhhomheprhgrhigrnhgurhgvfihssegvrghsthhlihhnkhdrtggrpdhnsggprhgtphhtthhopedvpdhrtghpthhtohepreerpdhrtghpthhtohepiihshhdquhhsvghrshesiihshhdrohhrghdpghgvthdqkghiphfrrghsshifugepthhruhgv X-Vade-Score: 0 X-Vade-State: 0 X-EL-AUTH: rayandrews@eastlink.ca Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------jCytCz6D3UuMUralCVrR106C" Message-id: Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 08:40:10 -0800 MIME-version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Fwd: more splitting travails Content-language: en-US To: zsh-users@zsh.org References: <205735b2-11e1-4b5e-baa2-7418753f591f@eastlink.ca> <970c7767-3f26-4cc9-a4f1-a7d62eca4ded@eastlink.ca> From: Ray Andrews In-reply-to: X-Seq: 29465 Archived-At: X-Loop: zsh-users@zsh.org Errors-To: zsh-users-owner@zsh.org Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: zsh-users-request@zsh.org X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Help: , List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------jCytCz6D3UuMUralCVrR106C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 2024-01-12 21:51, Roman Perepelitsa wrote: > I *am* glad. > ... No, it's a meta tool that lets you understand your own > code. You absolutely must remember it. I quite understand!  To know the trade, the first thing is to know the tools.  Ironically my 'varis' is precisely a souped up: "printf debugging" tool and I will not endure that arrays with blanks will not show me the bleeding blanks. If I want the blanks unshown I will *ask* for them to be unshown. If I copy an array I want an exact duplicate *unless* I specify otherwise. If I'm typing a letter don't correct my spelling automatically, I'll *ask* for spellcheck if I want it. Sometimes you make a speling mestake on purpose. [/micro-rant] As a self-taught zsheller working by myself I haven't the advantage of the 'up close and personal' chance to absorb culture and craft from experts like yourself. It's a bit like trying to learn Finnish over the internet talking to people who only speak Finnish when I myself don't yet know one word of it. But slowly, slowly things come clear. You guys are wonderfully patient. A single sentence can work wonders. Things you know so deeply you don't think they need to be mentioned. Eg. Bart saying that if it's not in quotes, or an expansion, then it's active. And if it is an expansion then '(P)' makes it active again. It blows away the fog. (And naturally there will be 17.02 exceptions -- 18.1 on Tuesday -- but it's a head start.) BTW, speaking of tools, wouldn't it be nice to be able to step thru the code, one line at a time?  Could do that with C back in the day. --------------jCytCz6D3UuMUralCVrR106C Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


On 2024-01-12 21:51, Roman Perepelitsa wrote:
I *am* glad. 
... No, it's a meta tool that lets you understand your own
code. You absolutely must remember it.

I quite understand!  To know the trade, the first thing is to know the tools.  Ironically my 'varis' is precisely a souped up: "printf debugging" tool and I will not endure that arrays with blanks will not show me the bleeding blanks. If I want the blanks unshown I will *ask* for them to be unshown. If I copy an array I want an exact duplicate *unless* I specify otherwise. If I'm typing a letter don't correct my spelling automatically, I'll *ask* for spellcheck if I want it. Sometimes you make a speling mestake on purpose. [/micro-rant]

As a self-taught zsheller working by myself I haven't the advantage of the 'up close and personal' chance to absorb culture and craft from experts like yourself. It's a bit like trying to learn Finnish over the internet talking to people who only speak Finnish when I myself don't yet know one word of it. But slowly, slowly things come clear. You guys are wonderfully patient. A single sentence can work wonders. Things you know so deeply you don't think they need to be mentioned. Eg. Bart saying that if it's not in quotes, or an expansion, then it's active. And if it is an expansion then '(P)' makes it active again. It blows away the fog. (And naturally there will be 17.02 exceptions -- 18.1 on Tuesday -- but it's a head start.)

BTW, speaking of tools, wouldn't it be nice to be able to step thru the code, one line at a time?  Could do that with C back in the day.
--------------jCytCz6D3UuMUralCVrR106C--