From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6288 invoked by alias); 23 Apr 2014 20:35:12 -0000 Mailing-List: contact zsh-users-help@zsh.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Id: Zsh Users List List-Post: List-Help: X-Seq: 18757 Received: (qmail 24632 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2014 20:34:57 -0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on f.primenet.com.au X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO,SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=no version=3.3.2 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: zsh-users@zsh.org From: Yuri D'Elia Subject: Re: zsh-newuser-install Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 22:31:46 +0200 Message-ID: References: <140416102727.ZM19090@torch.brasslantern.com> <534FE710.3020601@eastlink.ca> <140417123722.ZM22179@torch.brasslantern.com> <20140423165024.1480528a@pws-pc.ntlworld.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.106.183.18 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/24.4.0 In-Reply-To: <20140423165024.1480528a@pws-pc.ntlworld.com> On 04/23/2014 05:50 PM, Peter Stephenson wrote: > There's certainly plenty that could be added here --- enough that > nothing's likely to happen unless we get some solid feedback... > > - Make it more modular so stuff can be plugged into it and more of the > low-level framework is available as separate functions. > > - Make it interact better with scripts installed by distributions? I'm > not sure how useful this actually is, given distributions tend to hook > into to global /etc files, but then that doesn't give the user much > control, which is the point of newuser. Maybe the previous point already > covers this well enough. I'd like to plug myself right in here, to mention that I find the newuser module to be frustrating once you _already_ know zsh. It'd like it to be just a function being called in /etc/zsh/zshrc with a simple test: [ ! -f "~/.zshrc" ] && zmodload ... && zsh-newuser-install So that: - you can re-run it manually whenever you want (just zmodload&call) - you can disable the check by editing the systemwide zshrc ... and since configuration files in /etc/ are preserved, the change would _persist_ when zsh is updated. Right now I'm using a post-install hook to remove the newuser module after zsh is updated, because there are a few cases when I don't want a zshrc around, and I really (really) know what I'm doing. > These are all merely ideas, they are not things I would intend to do > just because I felt like it. I think many people nowdays wouldn't need the newuser mechanism, to be honest. With oh-my-zsh (and friends), people just look for a pre-configured solution which has a gazillion of options turned on. I personally always did the opposite, by starting reading the manual from an empty rc. Either way, I think that the newuser mechanism is not actually "selling" zsh to both experienced or novel users. The only thing that I see, is that it signals to the user that "look! this is *NOT* bash", and I think it's actually good to have for places where zsh is unexpected (note: I *never* saw zsh being the default shell anywhere). But that's just my 2c.