updating development versions

updating development versions

[Peter Stephenson]

zsh-3.1.6-dev-21 is in the CVS repository, tagged.  Tags will continue
to be in Tanaka Akira's format, i.e replace .'s by _'s giving
zsh-3_1_6-dev-21, which is the natural way to do it.

It ought to be possible to send it automatically (or at least via a
script which just needs the version) to ftp.zsh.org, which will avoid
me sending it over a 56kbps telephone line from home.  In fact, we
should even be able to set up a cron job to look for new -dev- tags.
Here's the litany of problems so far.  Anyone with time on their hands
is very, very welcome to look at this.

- Adam set up a checked-out copy on sourceforge in
/home/groups/zsh/zsh (the last zsh is the top-level CVS project
directory).  I have updated this, and configured it to install under
/home/groups/zsh, so developers might want to use /home/groups/zsh/bin
in their path.  I had to install yodl here to get it to work.  This
should provide us for the first time with a common platform for
examining bugs, so it should be kept up to date by anyone using it.  I
suggest using `umask 002' here.  I haven't checked our quota; I don't
know if we're going to run into difficulties doing this.  The first
problem is with `make targz-src': having multiple owners of files in
the distrib directory messes this up.  Improvement of
Util/mkdisttree.sh could fix this.

- There's no pgp evident on sourceforge.  This is the sort of thing I
don't want to sneak in because of possible legal difficulties.  pgp is
currently required for sending updates to ftp.zsh.org.  I don't have
my current key at work so can't send it from here (which is my problem,
but this isn't an option for the long term anyway).

Geoff, can you think of a simple, fairly automated way of getting
something from sourceforge into ftp.zsh.org?  I can't imagine this is
going to be too hard...  By the way, gcw is now in the zsh developer's
group.  I still can't get into `change developer permissions'.

Oliver, if you're interested in maintaining web pages, we could do
with something basic on sourceforge, so if you want to register, Adam
or I can add you as a developer.  Links to the other zsh websites and
to some zsh resources within sourceforge would be useful, though
there's no reason why this shouldn't all be available at
sunsite.auc.dk (some of it obviously already is).  The current general
web page (rather than the sourceforge-specific stuff) is just a
placeholder.  I don't think there's any arrangement for CVS handling
of web pages at sourceforge.

I haven't even looked at the anon FTP stuff at sourceforge yet.

pws

Re: updating development versions

[Geoff Wing]

Peter Stephenson <pws@cambridgesiliconradio.com> typed:
:- Adam set up a checked-out copy on sourceforge in
:/home/groups/zsh/zsh (the last zsh is the top-level CVS project
:directory).  I have updated this, and configured it to install under
:/home/groups/zsh, so developers might want to use /home/groups/zsh/bin
:in their path.  I had to install yodl here to get it to work.  This

OK, I've got no idea what you're referring to here.  I presume I don't
have access to this area?  yet?  I'm still getting the errors everyone
else is getting at the moment.  How about this 25 user limit:
FTP to our anonymous FTP space @ zsh.sourceforge.net.

        Login incorrect.
        
            ******************************************************
            *         Welcome to ftp.sourceforge.net             *
            ******************************************************

            Were sorry but weve reached our limit of 25 Concurrent
            Connections.  Please visit our website and Download from
            the faster httpd server.  http://sourceforge.net

            Thank you.

:Geoff, can you think of a simple, fairly automated way of getting
:something from sourceforge into ftp.zsh.org?  I can't imagine this is
:going to be too hard...  By the way, gcw is now in the zsh developer's
:group.  I still can't get into `change developer permissions'.

Shouldn't be too hard.  More a matter of how it should be signaled that
a new version needs to be checked-out and bundled.  Also, I haven't
looked into what needs to be done to bundle it.  e.g. run ``autoheader'',
``autoconf'', ``configure'' to make the Makefile to make the man pages.
What else?

:I haven't even looked at the anon FTP stuff at sourceforge yet.

See above.

Regards,
-- 
Geoff Wing : <gcw@pobox.com>     Work URL: http://www.primenet.com.au/
Rxvt Stuff : <gcw@rxvt.org>      Ego URL : http://pobox.com/~gcw/
Zsh Stuff  : <gcw@zsh.org>       Phone   : (Australia) 0413 431 874

Re: updating development versions

[Adam Spiers]

Peter Stephenson (pws@cambridgesiliconradio.com) wrote:
> - Adam set up a checked-out copy on sourceforge in
> /home/groups/zsh/zsh (the last zsh is the top-level CVS project
> directory).  I have updated this, and configured it to install under
> /home/groups/zsh, so developers might want to use /home/groups/zsh/bin
> in their path.

Excellent, thanks.  I was hoping someone would get around to that.

> I had to install yodl here to get it to work.  This
> should provide us for the first time with a common platform for
> examining bugs, so it should be kept up to date by anyone using it.  I
> suggest using `umask 002' here.

These files are all in group users, and writable by that group.  Can I
suggest that you chgrp -R them to group zsh?  I also did a chmod g+s
-R on /home/groups/zsh/zsh so that any new directories created would
end up in group zsh, so you might like to do that too.

> I haven't checked our quota; I don't
> know if we're going to run into difficulties doing this.

$ quota -g
Disk quotas for group users (gid 100): none
Disk quotas for group zsh (gid 5068): 
     Filesystem  blocks   quota   limit   grace   files   quota   limit   grace
      /dev/sdb2    4535  102400  128000             737    3000    3500 

> I still can't get into `change developer permissions'.

As I said elsewhere, I've submitted a bug report about this.

> Oliver, if you're interested in maintaining web pages, we could do
> with something basic on sourceforge, so if you want to register, Adam
> or I can add you as a developer.

Likewise, done.

> Links to the other zsh websites and
> to some zsh resources within sourceforge would be useful.

I already put a couple of links on http://zsh.sourceforge.net/, but this could doubtless be improved.

> though there's no reason why this shouldn't all be available at
> sunsite.auc.dk (some of it obviously already is).

I'm not keen with the way that www.zsh.org is more of a pointer than
the main webpage.  Is there a good reason for this, and could it be
changed?

> I don't think there's any arrangement for CVS handling of web pages
> at sourceforge.

True, although I don't see any reason why we couldn't place htdocs
under the same repository as the source.

> I haven't even looked at the anon FTP stuff at sourceforge yet.

Nor me.

Adam

Re: updating development versions

[Adam Spiers]

Geoff Wing (mason@primenet.com.au) wrote:
> Peter Stephenson <pws@cambridgesiliconradio.com> typed:
> :- Adam set up a checked-out copy on sourceforge in
> :/home/groups/zsh/zsh (the last zsh is the top-level CVS project
> :directory).  I have updated this, and configured it to install under
> :/home/groups/zsh, so developers might want to use /home/groups/zsh/bin
> :in their path.  I had to install yodl here to get it to work.  This
> 
> OK, I've got no idea what you're referring to here.

He's referring to our shared shell account file area under
/home/groups/zsh.  Try an `ssh gcw@zsh.sourceforge.net' and use your
normal sourceforge password.

Adam

Re: updating development versions

[Geoff Wing]

Adam Spiers <adam@spiers.net> typed:
:Geoff Wing (mason@primenet.com.au) wrote:
:> OK, I've got no idea what you're referring to here.
:He's referring to our shared shell account file area under
:/home/groups/zsh.  Try an `ssh gcw@zsh.sourceforge.net' and use your
:normal sourceforge password.

Yes, thanks.  Actually went through shell1.sourceforge.net and had
lots of problems with it after putting in my SSH public key.  It
kept disconnecting when my side tried to do RSA authentication.
So what if my key is 2048 bits instead of the default 1024?
Anyway, I had some memory of someone saying it could be set up to do
automatic builds on different platforms but couldn't find anything
about it via www.zsh.org/mla/ so maybe I've been out in the sun too
much and nobody said that?

Oh, also, www.zsh.org/mla/ isn't giving me any responses to any y2000
articles via wilma.  I'll look at fixing that now.

Regards,
-- 
Geoff Wing : <gcw@pobox.com>     Work URL: http://www.primenet.com.au/
Rxvt Stuff : <gcw@rxvt.org>      Ego URL : http://pobox.com/~gcw/
Zsh Stuff  : <gcw@zsh.org>       Phone   : (Australia) 0413 431 874

Re: updating development versions and Re: bug in FAQ

[Oliver Kiddle]

Peter Stephenson wrote:

> It ought to be possible to send it automatically (or at least via a
> script which just needs the version) to ftp.zsh.org, which will avoid

If someone does get some automatic thing working, it'd be nice to have
bzip2 compressed files aswell, particularly as this brings the total
size down enough to fit on a floppy. Incidentally, the source as taken
from CVS seems to be quite a bit smaller - what does it lack (other than
configure).

> Oliver, if you're interested in maintaining web pages, we could do
> with something basic on sourceforge, so if you want to register, Adam
> or I can add you as a developer.  Links to the other zsh websites and
> to some zsh resources within sourceforge would be useful, though
> there's no reason why this shouldn't all be available at
> sunsite.auc.dk (some of it obviously already is).  The current general
> web page (rather than the sourceforge-specific stuff) is just a
> placeholder.  I don't think there's any arrangement for CVS handling
> of web pages at sourceforge.

That sounds fine - though I would hope to have things arranged at some
point so the main web pages can be kept up-to-date. If anyone has any
suggestions related to what can go on these sourceforge pages then get
back to me. It looks like Adam has added me now on sourceforge - thanks.
I think we should look at consolidating the web pages into one area at
some point - we seem to have it all in several places at the moment. We
should atleast have one clear home page - I don't think it matters to
have the mailing list archive elsewhere for example. As Adam points out,
it is not ideal that the main page is only a list of pointers. Who owns
and pays for zsh.org? We could get a Christmas Island domain for free
(zsh.cx). It may be easier to have the main web pages at sourceforge.

Has anyone found out where the compile farm thing is - I'd guess it is a
shell account on a variety of systems. It'd be nice if they got some
suns, rs/6000s and sgis for us to test builds on.

Adam Spiers wrote:

>   If you have zsh in a subdirectory mytt(bin) of your home directory,
>   put this in .profile:
>               ^^^^^^^^

> I tried this in order to get my default shell on zsh.sourceforge.net
> to be the one in /home/groups/zsh/bin, but it doesn't work.  If I make
> it .zprofile however, I just get an endless loop, and the SF guys
> probably aren't too keen on fork bombs, even linear ones :-)

What I often do is set my shell to /bin/sh and exec zsh from my
.profile. That avoids any endless loops and has the advantage that only
the small bourne shell is used for non-interactive shells. The trouble
on Linux systems is that /bin/sh is bash so is little smaller than zsh
(if not bigger due to zsh's dynamic modules). I think the FAQ entry is
really intended for people who can't change their shell because chsh has
been removed by the sysadmin.

I was about to suggest that you check $SHLVL but I don't think that gets
incremented if you exec zsh. The best might be to change your shell to
ksh or csh (this is what I've done on sourceforge). Make sure that you
do a bit of checking in the .profile before execing a zsh. As you might
imagine, I had lots of fun trying to salvage my account at university
once when my home directory was moved, along with the version of tcsh
that was my default shell at the time.

Oliver

Re: updating development versions and Re: bug in FAQ

[Zefram]

Oliver Kiddle wrote:
>                                     Incidentally, the source as taken
>from CVS seems to be quite a bit smaller - what does it lack (other than
>configure).

Built man and info pages.  To do a proper source release, which includes
these things, you need to have the whole thing configured, so that you
can do a "make targz-src".

>                                                     As Adam points out,
>it is not ideal that the main page is only a list of pointers. Who owns
>and pays for zsh.org?

It's owned by the Zsh Development Group, and I pay for it.  Geoff is in
technical control.  (whois would have told you that much.)  I never got
involved in the webby side of things, I left that up to Geoff to handle
(how's that for passing the buck).  Personally I don't have a problem with
the current arrangement of http://www.zsh.org/ being merely a meta-index
page, but I can see why people would find it annoying.  It may well be
preferable to have www.zsh.org just do a redirect to the `real' pages,
which should incorporate the meta-index material.

>          It may be easier to have the main web pages at sourceforge.

It may well be.  Web pages that the main developers can directly write to
definitely sounds like an improvement on the current situation, regardless
of who's nominally maintaining them.  An even better situation (though
more difficult to set up) would be to have the web pages mirrored in
multiple locations; perhaps www.zsh.org could dynamically redirect to a
(random|careful)ly chosen mirror.

-zefram