From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10756 invoked from network); 17 May 1998 07:09:03 -0000 Received: from math.gatech.edu (list@130.207.146.50) by ns1.primenet.com.au with SMTP; 17 May 1998 07:09:03 -0000 Received: (from list@localhost) by math.gatech.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA06398; Sun, 17 May 1998 03:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Resent-Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 03:03:50 -0400 (EDT) From: TGAPE! Message-Id: <199805170158.BAA05181@tgape.ed.vnet> Subject: Re: Oh my God! They killed completion! YOU BASTARDS! To: zefram@tao.co.uk (Andrew Main) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 01:58:43 +0000 (GMT) Cc: schaefer@brasslantern.com, zsh-workers@math.gatech.edu In-Reply-To: <199805071647.RAA13962@taos.demon.co.uk> from "Andrew Main" at May 7, 98 05:47:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PAWnj.0.vZ1.MleNr"@math> Resent-From: zsh-workers@math.gatech.edu X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/3980 X-Loop: zsh-workers@math.gatech.edu Precedence: list Resent-Sender: zsh-workers-request@math.gatech.edu Andrew Main wrote: > > Bart Schaefer wrote: >> Maybe a better approach would be to distribute an autoloadable script >> that, when run, would report the differences between the current zsh and >> a specified previous version (default the last major release). > > That's what Etc/NEWS is for. It needs to be updated for 3.1. Documentation's great. So, who in this group is a documentation fanatic? No one, I see. That would explain why the documentation is so friggin out of date. Of course, the fact that the documentation is actually spread out between so many files probably contributes to it; I usually find that at least the manpages are current, which is a good thing. The others - I've learned to mostly ignore them, they too rarely have the right information for the problems I look at them for. This is at least better than at work, where I find talking to the author is frequently the only way to go, as the documentation was last updated in '96, and the code last updated last month. (Ok, exaggeration - month and a half ago, and it was December '96.) Etc/NEWS (or ChangeLog, or whatever) has the problem that it tends to be longer than many people wish to read before starting to use the new shell, as well as frequently being too terse (this isn't a contradiction, rather a statement of human nature) to be of much use anyway - they generally assume that the new program'll work the same as their old version, except for bug fixes, until they play with the new options. This is a good thing, especially on machines which have multiple users - when I upgrade zsh on my machine, *I* am the primary person affected. When one of my friends upgrades zsh on his machine, there are dozens affected, many who aren't necessarily observant enough to realize 'Hey, a shell upgrade occurred, and zefram's done an annoying default option change on me on some option I'm completely unfamiliar with because I immediately dismissed it as a bad idea.' I've heard there's someone at work who can do this to hundreds, and I've seen ISPs where they could potentially do it to thousands. I'd suggest rather than an emulate version, just a detect version, like vim has - when vim changes significantly, anyone who is used to the old version gets a comment about how their .vimrc file is for an older version, and would they please read about the changes. Anyone who doesn't have a version tag in their configuration file is obviously using an older version. At work, I control the upgrades for vim, and there are about half a dozen people who use it. So far, I've never had a complaint about unexpected changes due to an upgrade. I personally wasn't affected by this one, as I happen to be paranoid - my .zlogin file sets all options the way I want them; if the default is what I want, I still set it that way. Not everyone is as looney as myself, however. I personally use the feature Alan castigated as the worst idea ever thought of, but then he'd probably be one of the first people to mention I have little sense. Still, I agree with him that it shouldn't be default. Just because it's useful doesn't mean that it should be set as a trap to the unwary; most people who start using zsh are used to other shells which don't do that. (Btw, yes, I would find it more convenient if my compctl lines didn't have to include every friggin completion. Course, not trusting you guys, I probably still wouldn't be lazy and remove the redundant ones.) And, Alan, the emacs call was highly out of line - if they made this change in emacs style, to use it, you'd have had to type Esc-xcomplete-word-and-move-the-cursor-to-the-line-the-previous-prompt, which of course can only be feasibly typed by pressing tab an inordinante number of times, to distinguish it from complete-line, complete-word-and-enter, complete-word-and-move-the-mouse-randomly, complete-word-and-move-the-cursor-to-the-top-of-the-screen, and other such blatherskite. If they ever do try something like this to zsh I will agree that they should be drawn, quartered, shot, flayed, salted, filleted, burned at the stake, and beheaded (but otherwise treated with respect, unlike Our Friend Bill). I do feel that, considering what the list of things to bind keys to, Kenny is in danger. Hopefully, this is a Christmas show... --\Grimm, tgape@bigfoot.com Ed|-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- A|Version: 3.1 lv|GS/CS/O/>AT PS+-->? PE++()>? Y+-->? PGP->- G++(-) t+--- s+:- c++++$ K in|N(++) b++(++++) d+$(-) 5 O- !tv-- !E---$>? ULIBS(VUCX)+$(++++$)>++++$ G|R(-)* V--$ a->970(?) w---($)>----!? W--()(-)>? P++-- C++$(---)(>?) >o ri|X-->? y+-*>++++** M-$>? D++--- DI++++>$ e++* h+* r--%*>+++ L+++>++++$ mm|------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------