From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1335 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2005 09:23:23 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by ns1.primenet.com.au with SMTP; 13 Jul 2005 09:23:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 62738 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2005 09:23:16 -0000 Received: from sunsite.dk (130.225.247.90) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 13 Jul 2005 09:23:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 27570 invoked by alias); 13 Jul 2005 09:23:13 -0000 Mailing-List: contact zsh-workers-help@sunsite.dk; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes X-Seq: 21456 Received: (qmail 27560 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2005 09:23:12 -0000 Received: from news.dotsrc.org (HELO a.mx.sunsite.dk) (130.225.247.88) by sunsite.dk with SMTP; 13 Jul 2005 09:23:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 62472 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2005 09:23:11 -0000 Received: from mxfep01.bredband.com (195.54.107.70) by a.mx.sunsite.dk with SMTP; 13 Jul 2005 09:23:07 -0000 Received: from puritan.petwork ([213.112.43.228] [213.112.43.228]) by mxfep01.bredband.com with ESMTP id <20050713092305.XXII11632.mxfep01.bredband.com@puritan.petwork> for ; Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:23:05 +0200 Received: by puritan.petwork (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2AC95ADFEA; Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:23:05 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:23:05 +0200 From: Nikolai Weibull To: zsh-workers@sunsite.dk Subject: Re: Good, easy to use, upstream defaults for zsh (i.e. improving usability) Message-ID: <20050713092305.GA5082@puritan.pnetwork> Mail-Followup-To: zsh-workers@sunsite.dk References: <3060c2390507101559320eb09c@mail.gmail.com> <20050711154439.GA5307@puritan.pnetwork> <20050711170259.GD5307@puritan.pnetwork> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.8i X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 on a.mx.sunsite.dk X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=6.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Hits: -2.6 Keir Mierle wrote: > On 7/11/05, Nikolai Weibull > wrote: > > Keir Mierle wrote: > > > On 7/11/05, Nikolai Weibull > > > wrote: > > > > Keir Mierle wrote: > > > > > So what? Did you stop to think for a second, that if the > > > > > default zsh config didn't suck, then the various distributions > > > > > might use it? > > > > How are any of the other shells' defaults any better? > > > They're not. They're just as awful. This all the more reason to do > > > one better. Do you think Google, when creating Google Maps, said > > > 'Yahoo maps and MapQuest can't pan without refreshing, why should > > > we?' No, instead they said 'Hey, we can do something really useful > > > the competition doesn't.' > > Map applications on the Internet have been around 3-5 years, shells > > 40-45? What I'm saying is that it seems hard to come up with good > > defaults for shells. > Doesn't mean we shouldn't try. And that's not what I'm saying. > > > Exactly. Bash is just as bad. Which is precisely why we should do > > > one (or two) better. Which is what we have to do to convince most > > > people to switch-- the barrier is higher for zsh because it is not > > > installed on most machines. > > Yes, but then "bad" defaults doesn't explain why people are using > > Bash over Zsh. > Sure it does. Bash ships by default with most unix/linux installs. > That's enough momentum to stop most people from switching. Look at the > trouble Mozilla has had denting IE's marketshare with firefox; the > pre-installed advantage is enormous. Firefox is way better, by > default, and it's still having trouble! No it doesn't; it doesn't explain why Bash ships by default with most unix/linux installs. The reason for Bash being the default is that it is GNU software and that it is closer, in a sense, to the old /bin/sh than Zsh is. Firefox has surely made a dent in internet explorers marketshare, but I know what you're saying, nikolai -- Nikolai Weibull: now available free of charge at http://bitwi.se/! Born in Chicago, IL USA; currently residing in Gothenburg, Sweden. main(){printf(&linux["\021%six\012\0"],(linux)["have"]+"fun"-97);}