zsh-workers
 help / color / Atom feed
* Re: [Bug] Unexpected bug suspension
@ 2020-05-21  9:23 Mikael Magnusson
  2020-05-21 12:39 ` Rudi C
  2020-05-21 16:30 ` Daniel Shahaf
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Mikael Magnusson @ 2020-05-21  9:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rudi C; +Cc: Bart Schaefer, zsh-workers

On 5/21/20, Rudi C <rudiwillalwaysloveyou@gmail.com> wrote:
> Considering this bug (or a very similar variant) was reported before and
> the issue just died a silent death, I think it's a good idea to create a
> Github repo for tracking zsh issues. Github issue tracker is a lot better
> than mailing lists, as things have a dichotomy of being  open/closed, and
> can be labeled. It is harder for issues to die a silent death there. It is
> also easier to contribute to that, and easier to unsubscribe (I don't think
> one can unsubscribe from a mailing list post one participated in, as people
> (wisely) use reply-all.).

As a counterpoint to that, I give you
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734643 which has been
open for 8 years. Nobody cares about bugs more just because they are
"open" in some bug tracker.

-- 
Mikael Magnusson

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [Bug] Unexpected bug suspension
  2020-05-21  9:23 [Bug] Unexpected bug suspension Mikael Magnusson
@ 2020-05-21 12:39 ` Rudi C
  2020-05-21 18:10   ` Bart Schaefer
  2020-05-21 16:30 ` Daniel Shahaf
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Rudi C @ 2020-05-21 12:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Mikael Magnusson; +Cc: Bart Schaefer, zsh-workers


[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3451 bytes --]

Still, that's just one example. I don't claim I have done statistical
research on this, but my intuition is that better organization leads to
increased productivity and decreased bikeshedding. Also, I don't know what
regulars here use to manage their email, but I can tell you that using a
mailing list is rather incompatible with modern, mainstream email clients.
I personally use Telegram's Gmail bot as my main way of receiving emails,
and it fails to format emails from mailing lists correctly. I think the
fact that most people have switched to using Github's issue tracker (even
some closed-source projects) should hint that there are good reasons for
using a modern, web&mobile-friendly solution. As you know, Github has now
released official clients for both the terminal and iOS. Of course, I don't
know much about other issue trackers, and if there is a better option, then
that's fine, too. What I don't grok (at all) is what advantages the mailing
list is bringing to the table. Github issues can be received and replied to
via email as well. I might be a young, inexperienced person, but I have no
idea how to do basic things like searching through the past issues in the
mailing list. (Do I use Google with a "site:" directive?) Even when finding
an issue in the archive, all the conversation is scattered across so many
pages, that it just doesn't compare to the sleek experience you get on
Github. I mean, the only way I am keeping up with this issue I have opened
myself is by having a pinned tab of
https://www.zsh.org/mla/workers/2020/index.html on my Chrome, which I check
regularly. And I am the kind of person who has 1000 lines of emacs config,
9 open tabs in iTerm at all times, the first of which is a tmux session
that has three panes. (And I am a student currently who doesn't work, so
all that is for personal use.) I take my notes on a plain-text system that
uses git and personal scripts to search/manage them. I listen to music
through a custom scraper/player CLI I wrote. I follow my readables through
scripts that scrape rss, email, and websites, and package the results into
EPUBs that get sent to my Kindle device. You get the idea. I think when I
feel that the mailing list is a relic of the past that does not bode well
in the mobile age, you should seriously consider that. The current system
cannot be utilized effectively by probably more than 98% of developers.
Googling for "how to use mailing list effectively" returns marketing
bullshit. ...

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 1:53 PM Mikael Magnusson <mikachu@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 5/21/20, Rudi C <rudiwillalwaysloveyou@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Considering this bug (or a very similar variant) was reported before and
> > the issue just died a silent death, I think it's a good idea to create a
> > Github repo for tracking zsh issues. Github issue tracker is a lot better
> > than mailing lists, as things have a dichotomy of being  open/closed, and
> > can be labeled. It is harder for issues to die a silent death there. It
> is
> > also easier to contribute to that, and easier to unsubscribe (I don't
> think
> > one can unsubscribe from a mailing list post one participated in, as
> people
> > (wisely) use reply-all.).
>
> As a counterpoint to that, I give you
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734643 which has been
> open for 8 years. Nobody cares about bugs more just because they are
> "open" in some bug tracker.
>
> --
> Mikael Magnusson
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [Bug] Unexpected bug suspension
  2020-05-21  9:23 [Bug] Unexpected bug suspension Mikael Magnusson
  2020-05-21 12:39 ` Rudi C
@ 2020-05-21 16:30 ` Daniel Shahaf
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Shahaf @ 2020-05-21 16:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: zsh-workers

Mikael Magnusson wrote on Thu, 21 May 2020 11:23 +0200:
> On 5/21/20, Rudi C <rudiwillalwaysloveyou@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Considering this bug (or a very similar variant) was reported before and
> > the issue just died a silent death, I think it's a good idea to create a
> > Github repo for tracking zsh issues. Github issue tracker is a lot better
> > than mailing lists, as things have a dichotomy of being  open/closed, and
> > can be labeled. It is harder for issues to die a silent death there. It is
> > also easier to contribute to that, and easier to unsubscribe (I don't think
> > one can unsubscribe from a mailing list post one participated in, as people
> > (wisely) use reply-all.).  
> 
> As a counterpoint to that, I give you
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734643 which has been
> open for 8 years. Nobody cares about bugs more just because they are
> "open" in some bug tracker.

True, but I think Rudi did have a valid point as well.

One can't get people to solve bugs by recording those bugs in
a different kind of database.  In general, one can't solve a social
problem by technical means.  However, having a bug tracker would solve
a _technical_ problem: it would provide an easy way to enumerate and
grep the list of all known, unresolved issues, and to access the latest
status of each.

Cheers,

Daniel

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [Bug] Unexpected bug suspension
  2020-05-21 12:39 ` Rudi C
@ 2020-05-21 18:10   ` Bart Schaefer
  2020-05-21 19:01     ` Bart Schaefer
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Bart Schaefer @ 2020-05-21 18:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rudi C; +Cc: zsh-workers

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 5:39 AM Rudi C <rudiwillalwaysloveyou@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Googling for "how to use mailing list effectively" returns marketing bullshit. ...

Well, one way is to occasionally put line breaks in your wall of text.

Another is to put your reply below an edited-down excerpt of the
conversation instead of at the top of everything that's been written
before.  I know that takes an annoying extra few seconds.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [Bug] Unexpected bug suspension
  2020-05-21 18:10   ` Bart Schaefer
@ 2020-05-21 19:01     ` Bart Schaefer
  2020-05-21 20:15       ` Rudi C
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Bart Schaefer @ 2020-05-21 19:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rudi C; +Cc: zsh-workers

Rudi, are you receiving the "A bug tracker (was Re: ...)" thread via
zsh-workers list, or should we be Cc'ing you?

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [Bug] Unexpected bug suspension
  2020-05-21 19:01     ` Bart Schaefer
@ 2020-05-21 20:15       ` Rudi C
  2020-05-21 21:00         ` Bart Schaefer
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Rudi C @ 2020-05-21 20:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Bart Schaefer; +Cc: zsh-workers


[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 738 bytes --]

Please CC me; I am not subscribed to the mailing list. (Again, because I
have no idea how to filter what I receive effectively. Regexes?)

Another is to put your reply below an edited-down excerpt of the
> conversation instead of at the top of everything that's been written
> before.  I know that takes an annoying extra few seconds.


One reason I haven't done that is that I don't know how the mailing list
software is connecting these emails to construct a thread, and I did not
want to break any assumptions it did on the text.

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Bart Schaefer <schaefer@brasslantern.com>
wrote:

> Rudi, are you receiving the "A bug tracker (was Re: ...)" thread via
> zsh-workers list, or should we be Cc'ing you?
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [Bug] Unexpected bug suspension
  2020-05-21 20:15       ` Rudi C
@ 2020-05-21 21:00         ` Bart Schaefer
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Bart Schaefer @ 2020-05-21 21:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Rudi C; +Cc: zsh-workers

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 1:15 PM Rudi C <rudiwillalwaysloveyou@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't know how the mailing list software is connecting these emails to construct a thread

Subject line and/or References: header, I believe.

> I have no idea how to filter what I receive effectively. Regexes?

You're using gmail, so you could set up filters there to label the
messages before your bot gets to them.  Assuming the bot is using IMAP
to access the gmail box, the labels should show up as separate folders
to the bot.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

end of thread, back to index

Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-05-21  9:23 [Bug] Unexpected bug suspension Mikael Magnusson
2020-05-21 12:39 ` Rudi C
2020-05-21 18:10   ` Bart Schaefer
2020-05-21 19:01     ` Bart Schaefer
2020-05-21 20:15       ` Rudi C
2020-05-21 21:00         ` Bart Schaefer
2020-05-21 16:30 ` Daniel Shahaf

zsh-workers

Archives are clonable: git clone --mirror http://inbox.vuxu.org/zsh-workers

Example config snippet for mirrors

Newsgroup available over NNTP:
	nntp://inbox.vuxu.org/vuxu.archive.zsh.workers


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git