From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.4 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 7815 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2021 14:55:23 -0000 Received: from zero.zsh.org (2a02:898:31:0:48:4558:7a:7368) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 13 Apr 2021 14:55:23 -0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; cv=none; a=rsa-sha256; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20200801; t=1618325723; b=gtwv3QvOdw3M5jFJTAx9kVA2JH+j00q3XEwj7l/Y5u2QD/wFcDz4HKztXa4/stseHz1Xhzdfex Uzk38fwDdr8dG/OiZho+RCPsPRmr73Kaoq02F3aJZlmFQEF4PjnOBuLbXl2dWXh4RlHDQAcYaX H7NobVdG0+YJWQH8aW1MaV7yAIrx2L4SZHWXX0jOOI7IqjWCG0YjzDio5NhYdvmn2ylDWv9UlX GditJF+o9ZJ5Wo8Nloxhn3KzaHjX7tdpWQtmurdG88pHYRoY8HfYNUOg9u940QESyXgUlS2Gsb XTVvpuHzb8nWY5kOqC3buTjcLQABdZR2prE+0ws+f8liww==; ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; zsh.org; iprev=pass (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com) smtp.remote-ip=66.111.4.26; dkim=pass header.d=daniel.shahaf.name header.s=fm3 header.a=rsa-sha256; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.a=rsa-sha256; dmarc=none header.from=daniel.shahaf.name; arc=none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20200801; t=1618325723; bh=+cxuy+GAwGOww8DJtfrmCFNVZuqGpKOxbdSFK/yRMiY=; h=List-Archive:List-Owner:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Help: List-Id:Sender:In-Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date:DKIM-Signature: DKIM-Signature:DKIM-Signature; b=g2baGlbGROXsX8ZPHmnteu4NpPvIS/g7i/sprJWoh8LQXB1ekTTnr/4v5lzS3S6tIOEwVFmYpN MCoXiDdQi3+zcbHEhdnMdHvu6cqoky5YKv2+1tiRRJRsu+qU1JbXz/CKym2RuWlwDi1zGrniUh /mu0PqcHHBSR7uusmYi4kvpTP+ezNmG/tAs2WzXxmkK9nZFy7J3unTR/5atg/D08eXMEEzjOc7 8eXkDLBfTewE1zCzwUcPTIZTIUJ6kP1uOAWfiykWu/hIlioFs4jVbr+5hIZO1A9Y0vKyPD1pXq fbOQ/2wAfyj+9xC/c/T2pHne/4ZWwmehQEISA0fHQ8Kfdg==; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20200801; h=List-Archive:List-Owner:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Id:Sender:In-Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding :Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date: Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID; bh=5lAQQ7lbORrACX4L4ZqVNl30t5wKyQPUhf37XJ6DVV4=; b=qgEijgek6uP8NmHTWB3hrW5ezp WSgCQhthJ17KEl+T38jKoD5P15XXvrvyQXBlyjWLO11fFfjhBk1V4V3kqXAutlV5vs1IQU+ZbdXxO K7ZYGPjwDqfcISdbtpS0eY51oRTgOd+oiMpKN7V8CyxR2dac/2Sw9+5PoE+84SrPfZWjSkRUJZX4/ qJrtW7iHo0fqKMxHoHs66ZrrwvOwXdL5Y08U/M2ok8FYtF3p3p7cWfbSd0jFadsQfYtovOJyZAT7q TIYpnMUj3Dy0HB28by7w0Nu4u4MdbEiGVk0jycLwaXY7UAeLJg2U3AgxMPhjF7VGi/5H0phTqFOHI hWuWvceA==; Received: from authenticated user by zero.zsh.org with local id 1lWKRn-0003zl-0N; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 14:55:23 +0000 Authentication-Results: zsh.org; iprev=pass (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com) smtp.remote-ip=66.111.4.26; dkim=pass header.d=daniel.shahaf.name header.s=fm3 header.a=rsa-sha256; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.a=rsa-sha256; dmarc=none header.from=daniel.shahaf.name; arc=none Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.26]:60075) by zero.zsh.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1lWKRW-0003jz-GS; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 14:55:07 +0000 Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id A569C5C01B7; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 10:55:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 13 Apr 2021 10:55:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= daniel.shahaf.name; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :in-reply-to; s=fm3; bh=5lAQQ7lbORrACX4L4ZqVNl30t5wKyQPUhf37XJ6D VV4=; b=ZLwKFJ/TysNICF98+ZZflgcWdDfpXxOcZ8PcI3lZzRToc1xTXQWrLd4P ZJygMDpfPbmnjAD+c04q83sk0JPW4+CyBYH4dk/W9wOWFTP/bMqjj6qs+xn1Fj9d NRqmH2glVErSz/Oc5udbkf5aLNm3PT9e4twPoOCyciUx/unoReKeb3pKMUQjn793 yzjpG0ItG/gMKo0EjDv7dLA/5gRDN1xPJtmiIIiSoYuCfip3fp5YRoQ2JadowBiV jVOtrTZxnnA/Hv3Fi3Tx6D7e0HmI7H6mK47sFiYveDPVYMGQKUQNZyb9NYnjkdcW nrmJP4nVYV11dRpwR5oKYU0yKfs7FA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=5lAQQ7lbORrACX4L4ZqVNl30t5wKyQPUhf37XJ6DV V4=; b=OqJiyFEZE6E96K1oLgCDWJ5A65Xq25JkJtpTdSQOZaekCP4uAwBFq4gvt qPe7X7GLCauCwE292KMgpxfbVNUBrKVxEbYIO3HvC0Ch+ev/f+D0zbgqm5z+qrLX oRpee0NvI01V1xhS7QmfRPRCHlV4XLk4NbO92XI/n5LG2radJh1+z3XbHlfBWmI0 37/MhgfBuMBTCqIz7N5UWq8eIzcrHN4dHEeqV4UqRxIOSPHw3u/wg8MEpG4riRO4 Qo9a8AZ5y6RflkUgwE3dehX4Uv8BIE+Faywa05rD+k1SLvDBOxiG2X0z6ya0moVq HTgyIatxM+6XY7H7stc6cbj/ytTbA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrudekledgkeduucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpeffhffvuffkfhggtggugfgjfgesth ektddttderudenucfhrhhomhepffgrnhhivghlucfuhhgrhhgrfhcuoegurdhssegurghn ihgvlhdrshhhrghhrghfrdhnrghmvgeqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepgfelhedtffeuhf egueelfeffjeegtddtleehvddvueeihfevgfdvgffhvedvkeetnecukfhppedutdelrdei iedrieefrddvfedtnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilh hfrhhomhepugdrshesuggrnhhivghlrdhshhgrhhgrfhdrnhgrmhgv X-ME-Proxy: Received: from tarpaulin.shahaf.local2 (bzq-109-66-63-230.red.bezeqint.net [109.66.63.230]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 2EC6224005E for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 10:55:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: by tarpaulin.shahaf.local2 (Postfix, from userid 1005) id 4FKTD72Yz7zhV; Tue, 13 Apr 2021 14:55:03 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 14:55:03 +0000 From: Daniel Shahaf To: zsh-workers@zsh.org Subject: Re: Rewrite of zsh-newuser-install (Mikael's subthread) Message-ID: <20210413145503.GN6819@tarpaulin.shahaf.local2> References: <20210407162447.GB6316@tarpaulin.shahaf.local2> <15283D59-F7B5-4A4C-AFFA-B9D3BB46963F@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Seq: 48531 Archived-At: X-Loop: zsh-workers@zsh.org Errors-To: zsh-workers-owner@zsh.org Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: zsh-workers-request@zsh.org X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: dana wrote on Sat, Apr 10, 2021 at 15:46:57 -0500: > Aside from being busy, i've kind of stepped back from this project because > i've started to have some anxiety about it myself. Although i still feel we > can't be *too* minimalistic with a default config, since nobody would use it, > the proposed changes have gone beyond the scope i'd initially envisioned. At > the same time, i don't know how to make an 'objective' case for why x change > is desirable but y change is excessive. Why need it be objective? If there's consensus on this list that something should be added, add it; else, leave it out. That's a high bar, so it'll keep the result conservative/minimal. > That ties in with another concern i have, which is that once a user installs > this configuration, it's basically untouchable to us. We can't really patch it > after the fact if there's a problem with it. The more complex the config is, > the greater the risk that we'll have an issue like that. > > Those two observations lead me to feel that, if we do go forward with this, > maybe implementing it with prompt styles and auto-loaded functions would be > the way to go after all. That would hide some of the more overwhelming aspects > of the config from end users, and it would allow us to patch bugs or otherwise > improve things after the fact. > We could have, say, an autoloaded function called zsh-defaults, and have the default zshrc consist of a (possibly commented-out) call to that function. That's similar to what Vim does nowadays, with a «defaults.vim» runtime file that people can choose to source. Cheers, Daniel