From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 3152 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2022 00:28:21 -0000 Received: from zero.zsh.org (2a02:898:31:0:48:4558:7a:7368) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 1 Sep 2022 00:28:21 -0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; cv=none; a=rsa-sha256; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20210803; t=1661992102; b=TSqT5vQNkQIfKinKxkxnK7dBq0aPXplKtfWcRhORDjxmU0LTvOjJMih4d1glOwdQUg3ZTaxkYG daOSoXYuT9KvUPvaxjl4GMhEmUJ0RuS+c6c6Wh9x5noywSXFzPsroEK/wCeGTxRE59zwVoD4uS oLi88wDhGMprmYi6EucWpBhRkX9LjHO4L/Yc0r+brr4enTpKGT3ohEXWa62oZCfzPzwELFSaxn ozCuWlqwWeHHiG4QRfBC6LkvClp861w+r/L7QHzTRSfwIplbEl/+AbcbeTJsVEkFUXs1wGRkCy vAPlyHD+0iBPlXNTwCCZFMQcp4NARKdqI1mZSP3wVXZb8w==; ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; zsh.org; iprev=pass (joooj.vinc17.net) smtp.remote-ip=155.133.131.76; dmarc=none header.from=vinc17.net; arc=none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20210803; t=1661992102; bh=V+8BQiEYm2F95Zi3fvNQyX+lgAFDvJ8lBir9SRSD8f8=; h=List-Archive:List-Owner:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Help: List-Id:Sender:In-Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date:DKIM-Signature; b=LKvPc9LEHgdus2VF+hOFO8Rh3wCNfZyhBQeTKQfTUcFoE9K+canlXo/yvLNdcuDGxDGVEVsgrc iTDpZM2G4g2K/rzWxKiEmapggbRSGRMu2xYS/RO6s4COCvDNrsy3tW1QGOTYxAOt8u27x1oUZ2 TkhdAiTnCK6n1Q5F8tSJWFS/CrgUK8RhI2je1njOL8UQyts5x4DXIyLywID1301K7yn2H8MdjA +E0S8dG18eWEhHyJjCoKYfHMlLmnSeItxVVQHe22VAUz/ilZV07AC0u7rbgaom/eSF4L8lHTnQ /utqUyjoewUG4brkawTG7q8Hz9m3fZVjKC4piI7dQlYFaQ==; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zsh.org; s=rsa-20210803; h=List-Archive:List-Owner:List-Post:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Id:Sender:In-Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding :Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date: Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID; bh=ICp+64b4wpqGr3Q5i9GafEfhZwsbAazUYcaw8fgRMeg=; b=QlAxepMdedWYRwaQbmK/rlCTj8 HJATTPzcpptXCT1KutI2+2OYtsXIj6CAcnKZ+na8gpJfrjR8gZ33Q8cF4IPO5pvHgcJtLT1ALVkT+ 83lpm3vL2jtocxqARnzTON6a9VI9dRgi6Ve+d+HHZB4jHVGiwEafWvUAGkiGCGyUJLiZypxCgt/E2 eyEOjSfuk51fKO3/StC1529zhrxx30oGQIRTswPpHBT+jOdcioxqefDyTO1ARzBvrLyc+E1wgTc+7 uKQyUpqlJE6VpL+S3wgejb0HB4zN0odi4RD9faoRsePHByf7Bq2cVpYC8dMVAS5W4tXKIG3e+nc8V sqvIznOQ==; Received: from authenticated user by zero.zsh.org with local id 1oTY4C-0003Qq-5C; Thu, 01 Sep 2022 00:28:20 +0000 Authentication-Results: zsh.org; iprev=pass (joooj.vinc17.net) smtp.remote-ip=155.133.131.76; dmarc=none header.from=vinc17.net; arc=none Received: from joooj.vinc17.net ([155.133.131.76]:35182) by zero.zsh.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) id 1oTXz4-0002zo-9b; Thu, 01 Sep 2022 00:23:02 +0000 Received: from smtp-zira.vinc17.net (128.119.75.86.rev.sfr.net [86.75.119.128]) by joooj.vinc17.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9733B21F; Thu, 1 Sep 2022 02:23:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: by zira.vinc17.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5BECE280018A; Thu, 1 Sep 2022 02:23:00 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 02:23:00 +0200 From: Vincent Lefevre To: zsh-workers@zsh.org Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 3/3] FAQ: sync newuser-install Message-ID: <20220901002300.GD992100@zira.vinc17.org> Mail-Followup-To: zsh-workers@zsh.org References: <764a967b-86df-42bf-9242-22e9aeedfac6@www.fastmail.com> <20220831122842.GC992100@zira.vinc17.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Mailer-Info: https://www.vinc17.net/mutt/ User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.7+32 (d84696f2) vl-149028 (2022-08-22) X-Seq: 50555 Archived-At: X-Loop: zsh-workers@zsh.org Errors-To: zsh-workers-owner@zsh.org Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: zsh-workers-request@zsh.org X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: On 2022-08-31 12:36:06 -0700, Bart Schaefer wrote: > On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 5:34 AM Vincent Lefevre wrote: > > > > On 2022-08-30 14:31:30 -0500, Felipe Contreras wrote: > > > Yes, but "we" are zsh veterans. We don't need a simpler .zshrc, but > > > newcomers do. > > > > Having a too simple .zshrc file is not helping them. Rather than > > hidden defaults, I think that it is better to have explicit values > > in some default .zshrc file, so that it is easier to change them. > > We've made several stabs at this without ever coming to a resolution. > The most recent attempt was in spring 2021 (search archives for > subject "Rewrite of zsh-newuser-install"). > > There have always been 3 problems: > * Supplying a default file leads to package maintainers shoving it > into /etc, despite admonitions to the contrary Perhaps it should first check that the owner of the file corresponds to $UID. > * A small well-documented file is easy to understand and edit, but ... > * ... others want the default file to enable and configure all the > cool/powerful features > > Consequently we go round in circles and end up changing nothing. Provide a minimal .zshrc and an additional .zshrc-extra, where the .zshrc file ends with # Uncomment to configure extra features (or copy such features here) #source .zshrc-extra > > I currently use HISTSIZE=8000 SAVEHIST=8000, and while this value > > is OK on some machines, I've noticed that I sometimes lose commands, > > and indeed, after a look, this gives me only a 12-day history on my > > main machine, while I would have thought that it would be several > > weeks (I wish I could set a minimum time limit for the history). > > That's actually not a bad idea, and would probably work well in > conjunction with HIST_SAVE_NO_DUPS. Would require EXTENDED_HISTORY. Or SHARE_HISTORY? I do not use HIST_SAVE_NO_DUPS because it breaks accept-line-and-down-history. I use INC_APPEND_HISTORY (together with EXTENDED_HISTORY). So the history lines are already sorted by time. > > And there's more than the history. I suspect that many users would > > like "bindkey -e", a better prompt and better completions than the > > default. > > Cf. "all the cool/powerful features" ... > > (Isn't "bindkey -e" already the default? Is this just to overcome > having EDITOR=vim or some such?) Unfortunately, it isn't (at least not with "zsh -f", for which the only possibility is to type "bindkey -e"). BTW, the manual says: Emacs editing mode is probably more natural for beginners and can be selected explicitly with the command bindkey -e. Since it is probably more natural for beginners, why isn't it the default? -- Vincent Lefèvre - Web: 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)