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Tue, 4 Oct 2022 01:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by tarpaulin.shahaf.local2 (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4MhR9H0bgzz1vj; Tue, 4 Oct 2022 05:29:55 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 05:29:55 +0000 From: Daniel Shahaf To: Peter Stephenson Cc: zsh-workers@zsh.org, Xiao Ling XL Chen , Kui K Zhang Subject: Re: The request of words matter updated Message-ID: <20221004052955.GA27622@tarpaulin.shahaf.local2> References: <6e0e440b-8e26-4a15-8f69-7b393aa6ff13@app.fastmail.com> <1142471274.1562947.1664268254401@mail.virginmedia.com> <9cf82892-e90a-4404-8b56-04b0046b9165@app.fastmail.com> <293717690.1711429.1664382844704@mail.virginmedia.com> <274355982.2028750.1664807113140@mail.virginmedia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <274355982.2028750.1664807113140@mail.virginmedia.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Seq: 50728 Archived-At: X-Loop: zsh-workers@zsh.org Errors-To: zsh-workers-owner@zsh.org Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: zsh-workers-request@zsh.org X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: > > Once that's established, perhaps someone could arrange for an online vote > > at one of the websites that do that? Given no technical change results > > from any of this, opinion is all we've got, and there's evidently no > > sign of a consensus. > > This appears to be where we're going. I'll do some research on this, but > if anyone has pointers to a good place for an anonymous vote, let me know. > I don't think it's time to vote yet; see . As producingoss explains, voting is going to leave half the participants unhappy. Let's instead try and find a solution we can consense on. If we do vote, we'll have to decide who will have the right to vote; whether the votes would be public; and what options the ballot will have; and agree on a voting system . > Thanks for the various cogent analyses of the points on both sides. > Beyond that, I don't think anyone has been called a Nazi yet, but there's > still time. > > I think the ultimate reason this is contentious is it's something of a > curveball (googly in my terminology; nothing to do with Mountain View, > if anything still falls in that category) --- it brings in a whole > heap of things not usually expected on a technical list, so all of us > in turn bring in a whole heap of our own non-technical ideas. At > least, that's about the only way to rationalise an involved discussion > on two words in a file that (as has been pointed out) most people will > never actually read. > Exactly. The proposed patch doesn't affect generated machine code in any way; it only affects source code and debug symbols (= it only affects developers of zsh itself). The arguments have nothing to do with, say, the C execution model or forward compatibility and everything to do with people. [I'd link to a Wikipedia page with a list of arguments for and against changing master/slave terminologies, but I can't find one.] > Q&A > --- > > Q. Isn't it terrible people have such different ideas from me? > A. You might as well complain about night being different from day. > And actually I think it's good to have this discussion out in the > open rather than just closed groups of true believers. > > Q. But surely my position is so obviously right it has to win by default? > A. No, for the same reason. There's no "obvious" at this level. The > fact people come to such different conclusions means it requires > some consideration. A vote looks to me the right way of doing this. What wins by default is the status quo. Cheers, Daniel