* yodl discontinued. @ 2004-02-27 15:33 Felix Rosencrantz 2004-02-28 6:37 ` Geoff Wing 2004-02-28 6:40 ` Clint Adams 0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Felix Rosencrantz @ 2004-02-27 15:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: zw It looks like yodl, the tool used to build the zsh docs, has been discontinued for some time. Sources can still be found through Debian. Partly because zsh is one of a few packages using yodl. The yodl home page suggests using texinfo. It's not clear to me why we use yodl over texinfo. I'm guessing texinfo doesn't create man pages, but yodl can create texinfo and man pages. Though the yodl requirement is sort of a nuisance of the zsh build. I build from CVS. Do we package the yodl'ed docs in release tar balls? -FR. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: yodl discontinued. 2004-02-27 15:33 yodl discontinued Felix Rosencrantz @ 2004-02-28 6:37 ` Geoff Wing 2004-02-28 6:40 ` Clint Adams 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Geoff Wing @ 2004-02-28 6:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: zsh-workers Felix Rosencrantz <f_rosencrantz@yahoo.com> typed: : It looks like yodl, the tool used to build the zsh docs, has been discontinued : for some time. Sources can still be found through Debian. And in the GPL directory on the Zsh FTP sites. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: yodl discontinued. 2004-02-27 15:33 yodl discontinued Felix Rosencrantz 2004-02-28 6:37 ` Geoff Wing @ 2004-02-28 6:40 ` Clint Adams 2004-03-01 11:34 ` Oliver Kiddle 1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Clint Adams @ 2004-02-28 6:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Felix Rosencrantz; +Cc: zw > The yodl home page suggests using texinfo. It's not clear to me why we use > yodl over texinfo. I'm guessing texinfo doesn't create man pages, but yodl can > create texinfo and man pages. I would suggest that if anyone is going to expend any effort in converting from yodl, he should go to DocBook rather than texinfo. > Though the yodl requirement is sort of a nuisance of the zsh build. I build > from CVS. Do we package the yodl'ed docs in release tar balls? Yes, both the manpages and the .texi are in the tarballs. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: yodl discontinued. 2004-02-28 6:40 ` Clint Adams @ 2004-03-01 11:34 ` Oliver Kiddle 2004-03-01 11:54 ` Peter Stephenson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Oliver Kiddle @ 2004-03-01 11:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: zw; +Cc: Felix Rosencrantz Clint Adams wrote: > > The yodl home page suggests using texinfo. It's not clear to me why we use > > yodl over texinfo. I'm guessing texinfo doesn't create man pages, but yodl can > > create texinfo and man pages. > > I would suggest that if anyone is going to expend any effort in > converting from yodl, he should go to DocBook rather than texinfo. I agree with this. I did a bit of investigation into DocBook before. We can get an initial conversion using makeinfo's --docbook option. The output of that still needs significant editing, however. From docbook, we'd get decent HTML output and better PDF output. Once there's a complete open source XSL-FO implementation, PDF would get better still (currently, it goes via TeX). Texinfo output seems to require some extra tool and would be potentially less good. How attached are people to having decent texinfo output? Though docbook can produce man pages, we'd probably need to use a bit of XSLT to get something like our current man pages. It isn't particularly setup for getting man pages and PDF from the same sources. There could be other advantages. For exmaple, XSLT could do a much better job of extracting documentation for builtins for use with the run-help script. The main advantage, however, is that we wouldn't be using yodl when yodl is unmaintained. Oliver ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: yodl discontinued. 2004-03-01 11:34 ` Oliver Kiddle @ 2004-03-01 11:54 ` Peter Stephenson 2004-03-01 12:58 ` James Devenish 2004-03-01 13:01 ` Oliver Kiddle 0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Peter Stephenson @ 2004-03-01 11:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Zsh hackers list Oliver Kiddle wrote: > I did a bit of investigation into DocBook before. We can get an initial > conversion using makeinfo's --docbook option. The output of that still > needs significant editing, however. From docbook, we'd get decent HTML > output and better PDF output. Once there's a complete open source > XSL-FO implementation, PDF would get better still (currently, it goes > via TeX). Texinfo output seems to require some extra tool and would be > potentially less good. How attached are people to having decent texinfo > output? As long as we can get info, I think that's good enough. If makeinfo produces DocBook output, is the reverse true? I don't think we need texinfo as such since we can get PDF another way. (I would say, however, that neither of the obvious ways of turning FO --- the intermediate output stage, akin to DVI --- into PDF is entirely satisfactory. Either you need a full Java set up or a fairly particular TeX set up. Both are subject to the multiple dependency problems which will be familiar to anyone who's tried to get, for example, Gnome's documentation system working from scratch (though the actually dependencies are different in this case).) -- Peter Stephenson <pws@csr.com> Software Engineer CSR Ltd., Science Park, Milton Road, Cambridge, CB4 0WH, UK Tel: +44 (0)1223 692070 ********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. ********************************************************************** ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: yodl discontinued. 2004-03-01 11:54 ` Peter Stephenson @ 2004-03-01 12:58 ` James Devenish 2004-03-01 13:01 ` Oliver Kiddle 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: James Devenish @ 2004-03-01 12:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Zsh hackers list In message <23603.1078142069@csr.com> on Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 11:54:29AM +0000, Peter Stephenson wrote: > As long as we can get info, I think that's good enough. If makeinfo > produces DocBook output, is the reverse true? I don't think we need > texinfo as such since we can get PDF another way. > > (I would say, however, that neither of the obvious ways of turning > FO --- the intermediate output stage, akin to DVI --- into PDF is > entirely satisfactory. Either you need a full Java set up or a > fairly particular TeX set up. It is possible to get from DocBook XML to PDF via LaTeX without going through FO (requires plain old teTeX, but does not require Java unless you hit xsltproc bugs). I don't know about DocBook-to-info, though. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: yodl discontinued. 2004-03-01 11:54 ` Peter Stephenson 2004-03-01 12:58 ` James Devenish @ 2004-03-01 13:01 ` Oliver Kiddle 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Oliver Kiddle @ 2004-03-01 13:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Zsh hackers list Peter wrote: > > As long as we can get info, I think that's good enough. If makeinfo > produces DocBook output, is the reverse true? It doesn't do the reverse but there is a tool named docbook2X which does do it. Seems to use XSLT so it should be easy enough to improve if it doesn't work as we would like. It also does man which may or may not be useful. I've not as such tried it. > (I would say, however, that neither of the obvious ways of turning > FO --- the intermediate output stage, akin to DVI --- into PDF is > entirely satisfactory. Either you need a full Java set up or a > fairly particular TeX set up. Both are subject to the multiple I just took whatever I got from Debian, starting with the xmlto tool and it all worked well. That was using PassiveTeX. For Java, you must have been using FOP or something. Sooner or later, a project such as xmlroff will result in a decent C or C++ implementation which will make it easier. Oliver ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2004-03-01 13:02 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2004-02-27 15:33 yodl discontinued Felix Rosencrantz 2004-02-28 6:37 ` Geoff Wing 2004-02-28 6:40 ` Clint Adams 2004-03-01 11:34 ` Oliver Kiddle 2004-03-01 11:54 ` Peter Stephenson 2004-03-01 12:58 ` James Devenish 2004-03-01 13:01 ` Oliver Kiddle
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