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Mon, 03 Oct 2022 16:25:13 +0200 Received: from oxbe8.tb.ukmail.iss.as9143.net ([172.25.160.139]) by smtp3.tb.ukmail.iss.as9143.net with ESMTP id fMNdoef2TsyQZfMNdoHKUA; Mon, 03 Oct 2022 16:25:13 +0200 X-Env-Mailfrom: p.w.stephenson@ntlworld.com X-Env-Rcptto: zsh-workers@zsh.org X-SourceIP: 172.25.160.139 X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=W/8r6Dak c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=633af0c9 cx=a_exe a=pgSR3NrKiwmx/6vnWRL19w==:117 a=1DWFKdCB1IcA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=ZjyAdWuDOD4A:10 a=NLZqzBF-AAAA:8 a=BU5bHN9TipB3Umj09V4A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=wW_WBVUImv98JQXhvVPZ:22 X-Authenticated-Sender: p.w.stephenson@ntlworld.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ntlworld.com; s=meg.feb2017; t=1664807113; bh=6z55b6Mj2v19tB1RSwOOD5lrAScDxc9IOs6Fu4Apwvo=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject; b=qkQn/N4DKdnD0MVQvGIRdx34X72PgUU2tvT5TWr+h2w5vniA0SK1s0nQIsyvWZzkx 6fX8xDRUOZ2OiHdYq92gufs+/IDy4QOOyxQwImt5oBpDWqLGtoV3eiQ/1t/Wodr+0e uKMvhrMmKZ0/TUAYA45LeugnQqiPntu9X4AggwXyfIlLi23S/cuxEYuQk//HbMuq5x GY2dEauA4t9I2Q8sJ48tMhfiLK5mGiUM+lnTzuOr/D/ytB4fPG5zNeerE76m5v/O4x QPVA8dsDI4Q10M+XPvXkpX+ce7M8/bZvxFKA6tEB35aIx8aLTN8vneT1zI3lIZFJ3u GNWNhVX+OiXyA== Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 15:25:13 +0100 (BST) From: Peter Stephenson To: zsh-workers@zsh.org Cc: Xiao Ling XL Chen , Kui K Zhang Message-ID: <274355982.2028750.1664807113140@mail.virginmedia.com> In-Reply-To: <293717690.1711429.1664382844704@mail.virginmedia.com> References: <6e0e440b-8e26-4a15-8f69-7b393aa6ff13@app.fastmail.com> <1142471274.1562947.1664268254401@mail.virginmedia.com> <9cf82892-e90a-4404-8b56-04b0046b9165@app.fastmail.com> <293717690.1711429.1664382844704@mail.virginmedia.com> Subject: Re: The request of words matter updated MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer X-Originating-IP: 147.161.224.167 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfCy+9NSefPBko/ZeSV2iw8l09yhGjObGaDAh+sdrQ9s6MTGYI+7cVc2DNdBnyEsjLx82AomQxKUTQv6RGbwHK6fI9o5S8DLiu9GL+72EDEE+rqX/t3A6 uBkjXsyqYIrnj7eg8R4vAFv3jRkOs/kS+ZMckqGeSb442qeiNX6kraq+Y+AhnHzC16pcJB0o7qPuxIrLfijFGW6WChtPLBcznBkgJM54ixOpY9A8o+YDIzZd 5e7ODZM9Yir6NXmzIfTVhgtAN6P8nwvcs4Brib1+jdndfVq2BSr2wN2SEy1nn2jy X-Seq: 50718 Archived-At: X-Loop: zsh-workers@zsh.org Errors-To: zsh-workers-owner@zsh.org Precedence: list Precedence: bulk Sender: zsh-workers-request@zsh.org X-no-archive: yes List-Id: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Owner: List-Archive: > On 28/09/2022 17:34 Peter Stephenson wrote: > As Lawrence and Bart already noted, there's no good steer here from the > various technical documents, or even vendors' manual pages. Lawrence has some new input here, I'll keep that separate. > Once that's established, perhaps someone could arrange for an online vote > at one of the websites that do that? Given no technical change results > from any of this, opinion is all we've got, and there's evidently no > sign of a consensus. This appears to be where we're going. I'll do some research on this, but if anyone has pointers to a good place for an anonymous vote, let me know. Thanks for the various cogent analyses of the points on both sides. Beyond that, I don't think anyone has been called a Nazi yet, but there's still time. I think the ultimate reason this is contentious is it's something of a curveball (googly in my terminology; nothing to do with Mountain View, if anything still falls in that category) --- it brings in a whole heap of things not usually expected on a technical list, so all of us in turn bring in a whole heap of our own non-technical ideas. At least, that's about the only way to rationalise an involved discussion on two words in a file that (as has been pointed out) most people will never actually read. Q&A --- Q. Isn't it terrible people have such different ideas from me? A. You might as well complain about night being different from day. And actually I think it's good to have this discussion out in the open rather than just closed groups of true believers. Q. But surely my position is so obviously right it has to win by default? A. No, for the same reason. There's no "obvious" at this level. The fact people come to such different conclusions means it requires some consideration. A vote looks to me the right way of doing this. pws