Dedication

Dedication

[Bart Schaefer]

The FVWM developers are planning to dedicate their upcoming release to the
victims of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in NYC, DC, and PA.  They are
adding a short paragraph to their ANNOUNCE file:

  This release is dedicated to the victims of the terrorist attacks
  in New York, Washington D.C. and Pittsburgh on 11th of September,
  2001.  The following people would like to express their sympathies
  to those affected:

Then a list of names of any developer or FVWM user who asks to be included.

As we also have a release coming up shortly, I thought I'd mention it in
case we'd like to do something similar.  No hard feelings if we decide not.

-- 
Bart Schaefer                                 Brass Lantern Enterprises
http://www.well.com/user/barts              http://www.brasslantern.com

Zsh: http://www.zsh.org | PHPerl Project: http://phperl.sourceforge.net   

RE: Dedication

[Borsenkow Andrej]

> The FVWM developers are planning to dedicate their upcoming release to
the
> victims of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in NYC, DC, and PA.  They
are
> adding a short paragraph to their ANNOUNCE file:
> 
>   This release is dedicated to the victims of the terrorist attacks
>   in New York, Washington D.C. and Pittsburgh on 11th of September,
>   2001.  The following people would like to express their sympathies
>   to those affected:
> 
> Then a list of names of any developer or FVWM user who asks to be
> included.
> 
> As we also have a release coming up shortly, I thought I'd mention it
in
> case we'd like to do something similar.  No hard feelings if we decide
> not.
> 

I agree. I think list can be omitted and replaced with "all developers"
(anybody with better English find better phrase) unless somebody would
wish to be named explicitly.

Re: Dedication

[Peter Stephenson]

Borsenkow Andrej wrote:
> I agree. I think list can be omitted and replaced with "all developers"
> (anybody with better English find better phrase) unless somebody would
> wish to be named explicitly.

Yes, I was just thinking on the same lines.

-- 
Peter Stephenson <pws@csr.com>                  Software Engineer
CSR Ltd., Science Park, Milton Road,
Cambridge, CB4 0WH, UK                          Tel: +44 (0)1223 392070


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Re: Dedication

[Adam Spiers]

Peter Stephenson (pws@csr.com) wrote:
> Borsenkow Andrej wrote:
> > I agree. I think list can be omitted and replaced with "all developers"
> > (anybody with better English find better phrase) unless somebody would
> > wish to be named explicitly.
> 
> Yes, I was just thinking on the same lines.

I'm for that too.

Re: Dedication

[Zefram]

Bart Schaefer wrote:
>As we also have a release coming up shortly, I thought I'd mention it in
>case we'd like to do something similar.  No hard feelings if we decide not.

This is silly.  We're writing a shell here, it's got nothing to do with
anything in meatspace.  It very particularly has nothing to do with
meatspace politics or warfare.  Let's not get involved.

-zefram

Re: Dedication

[Oliver Kiddle]

Zefram wrote:
> 
> This is silly.  We're writing a shell here, it's got nothing to do with
> anything in meatspace.  It very particularly has nothing to do with
> meatspace politics or warfare.  Let's not get involved.

Many books include a dedication at their start and I don't see why
software is any less a part "meatspace" than a book. Sport is as
unrelated to politics yet there are events cancelled and Ferraris
driving around yesterday in plain red and a black nose. I'd only see it
as involvement if the wording was controversial.

I'm in favour of the dedication and am happy with the suggested wording.

Oliver

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Re: Dedication

[Zefram]

Oliver Kiddle wrote:
>Many books include a dedication at their start

Books get dedicated to particular individuals closely known to the author,
not to huge groups of strangers.

>                                                     Sport is as
>unrelated to politics yet there are events cancelled and Ferraris
>driving around yesterday in plain red and a black nose.

People are taking this "mark of respect" thing too far.  Wasn't a
continent-wide three minutes silence enough?  The sporting effects are
uncalled for.

Despite my expressed opinion on the idea of a dedication, if we do decide
to do an "all developers" dedication then I don't object to being included
in that.

-zefram

Re: Dedication

[Clint Adams]

> Many books include a dedication at their start and I don't see why
> software is any less a part "meatspace" than a book. Sport is as
> unrelated to politics yet there are events cancelled and Ferraris
> driving around yesterday in plain red and a black nose. I'd only see it
> as involvement if the wording was controversial.

*sigh*

I took some small comfort until recently that zsh-workers was
the only mailing list I'm on where things of this nature
weren't discussed as if it were on-topic.

Many of my waking moments are wasted by the aftermath of
whatever one would call the events getting so much attention.
I can avoid the jingoistic hate speech by turning off the
TV or walking away, depending on the source.  I can delete
the long threads on software project mailing lists calling for
condemnation, letters of sympathy, webpage blackening,
and other such gestures, and the flame wars over the
propriety of such actions.  I can wear a mask to make my
lungs burn a little less when I have to breathe the fumes
from the WTC fires and Con Ed generators.  I'm digressing.

I'd question the propriety of such a dedication in a book,
whether "meatspace" or in "digital" form.  I might view it
as presumptuous.  I question both the propriety and the
value of the proposed dedication of a Z-Shell release.  I
vaguely recall Zefram urging some sort of action regarding
one of many attacks on personal freedom, and it being
regarded as none of our business.  How are plane hijackings
our business?

No hard feelings if the dedication is made.

Re: Dedication

[Fei Chen]

Dear Clint,

If you feel your time has been "wasted by the aftermath", maybe you should
consider not further wasting other people's time by submitting such an
insensitive post during this dreadful time. I personally feel I'd rather
"waste time" being saddened by the event than being offended reading your
post.

And how are hijackings and terrorism not our business?

fei

> I took some small comfort until recently that zsh-workers was
> the only mailing list I'm on where things of this nature
> weren't discussed as if it were on-topic.
> 
> Many of my waking moments are wasted by the aftermath of
> whatever one would call the events getting so much attention.
> I can avoid the jingoistic hate speech by turning off the
> TV or walking away, depending on the source.  I can delete
> the long threads on software project mailing lists calling for
> condemnation, letters of sympathy, webpage blackening,
> and other such gestures, and the flame wars over the
> propriety of such actions.  I can wear a mask to make my
> lungs burn a little less when I have to breathe the fumes
> from the WTC fires and Con Ed generators.  I'm digressing.
> 
> I'd question the propriety of such a dedication in a book,
> whether "meatspace" or in "digital" form.  I might view it
> as presumptuous.  I question both the propriety and the
> value of the proposed dedication of a Z-Shell release.  I
> vaguely recall Zefram urging some sort of action regarding
> one of many attacks on personal freedom, and it being
> regarded as none of our business.  How are plane hijackings
> our business?
> 
> No hard feelings if the dedication is made.
> 

Re: Dedication

[Peter Stephenson]

Fei Chen wrote:
> If you feel your time has been "wasted by the aftermath", maybe you should
> consider not further wasting other people's time by submitting such an
> insensitive post during this dreadful time. I personally feel I'd rather
> "waste time" being saddened by the event than being offended reading your
> post.

Right, that's it.  This topic is now finished here.

It's perfectly reasonable to suggest a dedication.  However, it's also
perfectly respectable not to want to include it.

There is no possible gain, and every possible harm, in having a flame war
here.  Please continue privately if you have strong feelings either way.

-- 
Peter Stephenson <pws@csr.com>                  Software Engineer
CSR Ltd., Science Park, Milton Road,
Cambridge, CB4 0WH, UK                          Tel: +44 (0)1223 392070


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The information transmitted is intended only for the person or
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and/or privileged material. 
Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by 
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is 
prohibited.  
If you received this in error, please contact the sender and 
delete the material from any computer.
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Re: Dedication

[Wolfgang Hukriede]

I think that's great, go for it! The text seems quite perfect to me,
it could be used unchanged.  Only, the list should perhaps not be too
short. (Otherwise silently forget this).

Best wishes to all, Wolfgang.

Bart Schaefer <schaefer@brasslantern.com> wrote:
> The FVWM developers are planning to dedicate their upcoming release to the
> victims of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in NYC, DC, and PA.  They are
> adding a short paragraph to their ANNOUNCE file:
>
>   This release is dedicated to the victims of the terrorist attacks
>   in New York, Washington D.C. and Pittsburgh on 11th of September,
>   2001.  The following people would like to express their sympathies
>   to those affected:
>
> Then a list of names of any developer or FVWM user who asks to be included.
>
> As we also have a release coming up shortly, I thought I'd mention it in
> case we'd like to do something similar.  No hard feelings if we decide not.