Valid Links?

Valid Links?

[Bev in TX]

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Re: Valid Links?

[Bart Schaefer]

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We should update those to use archive.org links

On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 2:20 PM Bev in TX <countryone77@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I have never been able to open the Linux Magazine links found on the ZSH
> Useful Links webpage:
> https://zsh.sourceforge.io/links.html
> I’ve copied them here:
>
>    - Linux Magazine — *Wilder Wildcards
>    <http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1606/> *by Jerry Peek, March 2004
>    - Linux Magazine — *Catching Some ZZZs
>    <http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1579/> *by Jerry Peek, February 2004
>    - Linux Magazine — *Writing Zsh Completion Functions
>    <http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1106/> *by John Beppu, July 2002
>    - Linux Magazine — *Writing Scripts for Zsh
>    <http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1079/> *by John Beppu, June 2002
>    - Linux Magazine — *Making the Transition to Zsh
>    <http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1053/> *by John Beppu, May 2002
>
> I do most of my browsing on:
> iPad Air 4
> iPadOS 17.6.1
> Both Safari and Brave browsers
>
> Safari only says:
> Safari couldn't open the page because the server stopped responding.
>
> But Brave says:
>
> Connection timed out Error code 522
> Visit cloudflare.com for more information.
> 2024-08-22 17:15:30 UTC
>
> You Browser Working
> Dallas Cloudflare Working
> www.linux-mag.com Host Error
>
> So, my question is whether those links still point to a valid website?
> Bev
>

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Re: Valid Links?

[Bev in TX]

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Re: Valid Links?

[Oliver Kiddle]

I've updated the links to use those archive.org addresses though I
generally find archive.org to be so unusably slow that everything times
out before a page can even be displayed. I also removed all the broken
IBM developerworks article links. There may be some newer articles
somewhere but it may be better not to try to maintain a list given the
impermanence of sites.

If anyone has some spare time, we don't really have anyone maintaining
the web pages at the moment. And given the long neglect there is plenty
of scope for doing rather more than just maintenance if someone is
interested.

Oliver

On 22 Aug, Bev in TX wrote:
> Thanks, I’m able to read them there.   Here are the 2007 links on archive.org:
>
>
>   • Linux Magazine — [1]Wilder Wildcards by Jerry Peek, March 2004
>
> [2]https://web.archive.org/web/20070224091600/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1606/
>
>
>   • Linux Magazine — [3]Catching Some ZZZs by Jerry Peek, February 2004
>
> [4]https://web.archive.org/web/20070213191422/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1579/
>
>
>   • Linux Magazine — [5]Writing Zsh Completion Functions by John Beppu, July
>     2002
>
> [6]https://web.archive.org/web/20070208101315/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1106/
>
>
>   • Linux Magazine — [7]Writing Scripts for Zsh by John Beppu, June 2002
>
> [8]https://web.archive.org/web/20070224072041/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1079/
>
>
>   • Linux Magazine — [9]Making the Transition to Zsh by John Beppu, May 2002
>
> [10]https://web.archive.org/web/20070203110900/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1053
> /
>
> Bev
>
>
>     On Aug 22, 2024, at 1:26 PM, Bart Schaefer <schaefer@brasslantern.com>
>     wrote:
>
>
>     We should update those to use [11]archive.org links
>
>     On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 2:20 PM Bev in TX <[12]countryone77@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>         I have never been able to open the Linux Magazine links found on the
>         ZSH Useful Links webpage:
>         [13]https://zsh.sourceforge.io/links.html
>         I’ve copied them here:
>           ☆ Linux Magazine — [14]Wilder Wildcards by Jerry Peek, March 2004
>           ☆ Linux Magazine — [15]Catching Some ZZZs by Jerry Peek, February
>             2004
>           ☆ Linux Magazine — [16]Writing Zsh Completion Functions by John
>             Beppu, July 2002
>           ☆ Linux Magazine — [17]Writing Scripts for Zsh by John Beppu, June
>             2002
>           ☆ Linux Magazine — [18]Making the Transition to Zsh by John Beppu,
>             May 2002
>         I do most of my browsing on:
>         iPad Air 4
>         iPadOS 17.6.1 
>         Both Safari and Brave browsers
>        
>         Safari only says:
>         Safari couldn't open the page because the server stopped responding.
>
>         But Brave says:
>
>         Connection timed out Error code 522
>         Visit [19]cloudflare.com for more information.
>         2024-08-22 17:15:30 UTC
>
>         You Browser Working
>         Dallas Cloudflare Working
>         [20]www.linux-mag.com Host Error
>        
>         So, my question is whether those links still point to a valid website?
>         Bev
>
>
> References:
>
> [1] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1606/
> [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20070224091600/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1606/
> [3] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1579/
> [4] https://web.archive.org/web/20070213191422/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1579/
> [5] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1106/
> [6] https://web.archive.org/web/20070208101315/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1106/
> [7] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1079/
> [8] https://web.archive.org/web/20070224072041/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1079/
> [9] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1053/
> [10] https://web.archive.org/web/20070203110900/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1053/
> [11] http://archive.org/
> [12] mailto:countryone77@yahoo.com
> [13] https://zsh.sourceforge.io/links.html
> [14] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1606/
> [15] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1579/
> [16] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1106/
> [17] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1079/
> [18] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1053/
> [19] http://cloudflare.com/
> [20] http://www.linux-mag.com/

RE: Re: Valid Links?

[zeurkous]

Haai,

[Don't have time for a more subtle response :(]

On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 11:09:34 +0200, Oliver Kiddle <opk@zsh.org> wrote:
> If anyone has some spare time, we don't really have anyone maintaining
> the web pages at the moment. And given the long neglect there is plenty
> of scope for doing rather more than just maintenance if someone is
> interested.

If the latter implies some kind of re-design: *please* please pretty
please make sure the result will still work fine in simple browsers like
lynx(1). Me doesn't actually think the current WWW site is all that bad
for a project like this; it could be very difficult to reflect the
relatively constraint-free nature of zsh in the captive interface that
is a web browser.

> Oliver

Take care,

        --zeurkous.

-- 
Friggin' Machines!

Re: Valid Links?

[Bev in TX]

I’m just a brand new ZSH newbie, but I do have a couple questions about this.  Those Linux Magazine articles with the broken links are very old, they were written 20-22 years ago.  

Is everything in the articles still valid today?
Are there more recent articles that might provide more up to date information?
Who would even know about that?
Bev

> On Aug 26, 2024, at 4:09 AM, Oliver Kiddle <opk@zsh.org> wrote:
> 
> I've updated the links to use those archive.org addresses though I
> generally find archive.org to be so unusably slow that everything times
> out before a page can even be displayed. I also removed all the broken
> IBM developerworks article links. There may be some newer articles
> somewhere but it may be better not to try to maintain a list given the
> impermanence of sites.
> 
> If anyone has some spare time, we don't really have anyone maintaining
> the web pages at the moment. And given the long neglect there is plenty
> of scope for doing rather more than just maintenance if someone is
> interested.
> 
> Oliver
> 
>> On 22 Aug, Bev in TX wrote:
>> Thanks, I’m able to read them there.   Here are the 2007 links on archive.org:
>> 
>> 
>>  • Linux Magazine — [1]Wilder Wildcards by Jerry Peek, March 2004
>> 
>> [2]https://web.archive.org/web/20070224091600/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1606/
>> 
>> 
>>  • Linux Magazine — [3]Catching Some ZZZs by Jerry Peek, February 2004
>> 
>> [4]https://web.archive.org/web/20070213191422/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1579/
>> 
>> 
>>  • Linux Magazine — [5]Writing Zsh Completion Functions by John Beppu, July
>>    2002
>> 
>> [6]https://web.archive.org/web/20070208101315/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1106/
>> 
>> 
>>  • Linux Magazine — [7]Writing Scripts for Zsh by John Beppu, June 2002
>> 
>> [8]https://web.archive.org/web/20070224072041/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1079/
>> 
>> 
>>  • Linux Magazine — [9]Making the Transition to Zsh by John Beppu, May 2002
>> 
>> [10]https://web.archive.org/web/20070203110900/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1053
>> /
>> 
>> Bev
>> 
>> 
>>    On Aug 22, 2024, at 1:26 PM, Bart Schaefer <schaefer@brasslantern.com>
>>    wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>    We should update those to use [11]archive.org links
>> 
>>    On Thu, Aug 22, 2024, 2:20 PM Bev in TX <[12]countryone77@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>        I have never been able to open the Linux Magazine links found on the
>>        ZSH Useful Links webpage:
>>        [13]https://zsh.sourceforge.io/links.html
>>        I’ve copied them here:
>>          ☆ Linux Magazine — [14]Wilder Wildcards by Jerry Peek, March 2004
>>          ☆ Linux Magazine — [15]Catching Some ZZZs by Jerry Peek, February
>>            2004
>>          ☆ Linux Magazine — [16]Writing Zsh Completion Functions by John
>>            Beppu, July 2002
>>          ☆ Linux Magazine — [17]Writing Scripts for Zsh by John Beppu, June
>>            2002
>>          ☆ Linux Magazine — [18]Making the Transition to Zsh by John Beppu,
>>            May 2002
>>        I do most of my browsing on:
>>        iPad Air 4
>>        iPadOS 17.6.1
>>        Both Safari and Brave browsers
>> 
>>        Safari only says:
>>        Safari couldn't open the page because the server stopped responding.
>> 
>>        But Brave says:
>> 
>>        Connection timed out Error code 522
>>        Visit [19]cloudflare.com for more information.
>>        2024-08-22 17:15:30 UTC
>> 
>>        You Browser Working
>>        Dallas Cloudflare Working
>>        [20]www.linux-mag.com Host Error
>> 
>>        So, my question is whether those links still point to a valid website?
>>        Bev
>> 
>> 
>> References:
>> 
>> [1] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1606/
>> [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20070224091600/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1606/
>> [3] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1579/
>> [4] https://web.archive.org/web/20070213191422/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1579/
>> [5] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1106/
>> [6] https://web.archive.org/web/20070208101315/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1106/
>> [7] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1079/
>> [8] https://web.archive.org/web/20070224072041/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1079/
>> [9] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1053/
>> [10] https://web.archive.org/web/20070203110900/http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1053/
>> [11] http://archive.org/
>> [12] mailto:countryone77@yahoo.com
>> [13] https://zsh.sourceforge.io/links.html
>> [14] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1606/
>> [15] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1579/
>> [16] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1106/
>> [17] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1079/
>> [18] http://www.linux-mag.com/id/1053/
>> [19] http://cloudflare.com/
>> [20] http://www.linux-mag.com/

Re: Valid Links?

[Oliver Kiddle]

Bev in TX wrote:
> I’m just a brand new ZSH newbie, but I do have a couple questions about this.  Those Linux Magazine articles with the broken links are very old, they were written 20-22 years ago.  
>
> Is everything in the articles still valid today?

Essentially yes. One effect of remaining backward compatible is that
almost everything that was true 20 years ago remains so today. There are
newer features that won't be covered but many of those would be less
interesting to a newbie. In some ways the biggest changes are all the
external plugins and wider ecosystem. But learning the older core features
may make a bigger difference than enabling flashy colourful themes and
the like.

The "introductory document"
(https://zsh.sourceforge.io/Intro/intro_toc.html) is even older but is
very good. That does cover the old deprecated compctl completion system
which is still there but was replaced long ago. So skip anything you
read about compctl.

> Are there more recent articles that might provide more up to date information?
> Who would even know about that?

Certainly there are. I've not come across much in proper publications
such as the old Linux Magazine as opposed to personal blogs. To find
them, I'd need to use a search engine but I'm sure you can do that for
yourself.

Oliver

Re: Valid Links?

[Bev in TX]

Thanks very much for taking the time to respond to my questions.
Bev

> On Aug 27, 2024, at 5:59 PM, Oliver Kiddle <opk@zsh.org> wrote:
> 
> Bev in TX wrote:
>> I’m just a brand new ZSH newbie, but I do have a couple questions about this.  Those Linux Magazine articles with the broken links are very old, they were written 20-22 years ago.  
>> 
>> Is everything in the articles still valid today?
> 
> Essentially yes. One effect of remaining backward compatible is that
> almost everything that was true 20 years ago remains so today. There are
> newer features that won't be covered but many of those would be less
> interesting to a newbie. In some ways the biggest changes are all the
> external plugins and wider ecosystem. But learning the older core features
> may make a bigger difference than enabling flashy colourful themes and
> the like.
> 
> The "introductory document"
> (https://zsh.sourceforge.io/Intro/intro_toc.html) is even older but is
> very good. That does cover the old deprecated compctl completion system
> which is still there but was replaced long ago. So skip anything you
> read about compctl.
> 
>> Are there more recent articles that might provide more up to date information?
>> Who would even know about that?
> 
> Certainly there are. I've not come across much in proper publications
> such as the old Linux Magazine as opposed to personal blogs. To find
> them, I'd need to use a search engine but I'm sure you can do that for
> yourself.
> 
> Oliver

Re: Valid Links?

[Clinton Bunch]

On 8/26/2024 04:09, Oliver Kiddle wrote:
> I've updated the links to use those archive.org addresses though I
> generally find archive.org to be so unusably slow that everything times
> out before a page can even be displayed. I also removed all the broken
> IBM developerworks article links. There may be some newer articles
> somewhere but it may be better not to try to maintain a list given the
> impermanence of sites.
>
> If anyone has some spare time, we don't really have anyone maintaining
> the web pages at the moment. And given the long neglect there is plenty
> of scope for doing rather more than just maintenance if someone is
> interested.
>
> Oliver

I would like to take a stab at a reorganization and updating to use more 
style sheet and less tables.  I want to add a dark mode and support for 
mobile browsers as well as keep zeurkous request for  text based browser 
support in mind.  (though elinks' partial support of CSS may be 
problematic) I'd also like to reorganize so there isn't so much 
duplicate information scattered all over the site.


First question, is there a reason we host a single page at zsh.org and 
the bulk of the site at source forge?

Also note I have a public web server where a beta can be hosted before 
updating the main site.

Re: Valid Links?

[Oliver Kiddle]

Clinton Bunch wrote:
> I would like to take a stab at a reorganization and updating to use more 
> style sheet and less tables.  I want to add a dark mode and support for 
> mobile browsers as well as keep zeurkous request for  text based browser 
> support in mind.  (though elinks' partial support of CSS may be 
> problematic) I'd also like to reorganize so there isn't so much 
> duplicate information scattered all over the site.

That sounds great.

> First question, is there a reason we host a single page at zsh.org and 
> the bulk of the site at source forge?

That's only done for historical reasons relating to the previously
separate hosting for some things like the mailing list archives. The
reasons behind that went away when we moved to the current mailing list
hosting. There was a plan to consolidate the content of the two sites
and put the primary content on www.zsh.org directly, perhaps retaining a
mirror on sourceforge. But neither me nor Daniel ever got around to
doing that, in part because the site is in need of a more substantial
reorganisation.

> Also note I have a public web server where a beta can be hosted before 
> updating the main site.

Sounds like a good approach for initial prototyping.

If you need help getting at the old content, let me know. The
sourceforge files are in git. You can get the various forms that the
logo came in from github.com/Zsh-art/logo

We should probably try to make it easier to include consistent release
notes across both the source distribution and web pages. So instead of
it being divided between the NEWS and README files, we could perhaps
separate it out in a manner similar to how git does and have, e.g.
RelNotes/5.9.md

Documentation and list archives are produced with texi2html and mhonarc,
respectively.

Oliver

RE: Re: Valid Links?

[zeurkous]

On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 12:06:40 -0500, Clinton Bunch <cdb_zsh@zentaur.org> wrote:
> I would like to take a stab at a reorganization and updating to use more=20
> style sheet and less tables.=C2=A0 I want to add a dark mode and support =
> for=20
> mobile browsers as well as keep zeurkous request for=C2=A0 text based bro=
> wser=20
> support in mind.=C2=A0

Thanks :)

> (though elinks' partial support of CSS may be=20
> problematic)

Me's always expected for lynx(1) to grow some CSS support, eventually,
so the problem may not be limited to elinks in the future.

On me as-yet-unpublished WWW site, me ended up using a `skunkworks'
combination of CSS for layout (complete w/ proper NAV tags etc.) and
traditional HTML markup for content. Me's tested it in a couple of more
graphical browsers as well and it looks fine.

Perhaps that's the most compatible approach, even if it will propably
ring alarm bells in the W3C validator. 

        --zeurkous.

-- 
Friggin' Machines!